What the fuck?????

[P/N]

FOXNews.com - Alleged Child Rapist Goes Free Because Court Can't Find Interpreter - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

ROCKVILLE, Md. — Charges against a man accused of repeatedly raping and molesting a 7-year-old girl were dismissed last week because the court could not find an interpreter fluent in the suspect's native West African language.

Mahamu Kanneh, a Liberian native who received asylum in this country and attended high school and community college here, according to The Washington Post, was denied a speedy trial after three years awaiting a court-appointed interpreter who could speak the tribal language of Vai.

A court-ordered psychiatrist determined that Kanneh, despite his functional facility with English — he originally spoke with detectives in English, The Post reports, needed to have Vai spoken in order to understand the proceedings against him.

Loretta Knight, a clerk with the court system in Montgomery County, Md., said she had been unable to find an interpreter to stay on the case, even after an exhaustive search that included the Liberian Embassy and courts in 47 states.

Judge Katherine Savage called her decision to dismiss the charges one of the most difficult she's had to make in a long time, especially since she was aware of "the gravity of this case and the community's concern about offenses of this type."

Prosecutors can't refile the charges but are considering whether to appeal the judge's ruling for the dismissal.

FOX News spoke with Kanneh in a five-minute conversation on Sunday in English. He said the allegations against him were false and the dismissal of the charges was "a good thing."

The Washington Post wrote in its article that in just one night reporters were independently able to identify three Vai translators available to assist in the case. It noted that the need for interpreters has risen starkly in Montgomery County, Md., with the court system spending $1 million in interpreters in 2006, or 10 times the amount it spent in 2000.

According to witnesses who originally reported the case to authorities, Kanneh allegedly repeatedly raped and sexually molested the girl, a relative. In a statement made by the girl to police, she said she had been told she'd be forced to stay in the apartment unless she had sex with Kanneh.

I know it's Maryland, but what the fuck? Our government needs fixed at every level! I feel horrible for this little girl and her family. Imagine what they are going through right now.

[Simius]

Fair trials are the most important part of our legal system. A trial where the accused can barely understand the charges or the evidence presented against him isn't fair. With that said, wtf indeed.

[Thorgrim]

Makes perfect crystal clear sense

You are assumed innocent until proven guilty...so you have an innocent man waiting for trial for YEARS, and with virtually no prospect of getting a translator so he can fully comprehend what is going on...at least in the near future...the founding fathers were quite insistent that you do not have people charged and then waiting for a trial for 10-20 years

The free market could have stepped in and law and order libertarians could have conducted a much better search than calling up an embassy, and found a person who spoke english in Liberia...they couldn't even afford to check every jurisdiction

A more funded federal government could have conducted the search, but we all want to cut the size of the government

So in the end, you want lower taxes, and you want the right to trials that don't last 10 years? This is the price you pay

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Makes perfect crystal clear sense

You are assumed innocent until proven guilty...so you have an innocent man waiting for trial for YEARS, and with virtually no prospect of getting a translator so he can fully comprehend what is going on...at least in the near future...the founding fathers were quite insistent that you do not have people charged and then waiting for a trial for 10-20 years

The free market could have stepped in and law and order libertarians could have conducted a much better search than calling up an embassy, and found a person who spoke english in Liberia...they couldn't even afford to check every jurisdiction

A more funded federal government could have conducted the search, but we all want to cut the size of the government

So in the end, you want lower taxes, and you want the right to trials that don't last 10 years? This is the price you pay

No libertarian would support a privatized judicial system. Maybe if we spent less money on [insert any socialized program here] we could afford to do better searching for someone who speaks his native language

Although, 3 years? I mean, I could have learned his native language in that amount of time.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

No libertarian would support a privatized judicial system. Maybe if we spent less money on [insert any socialized program here] we could afford to do better searching for someone who speaks his native language

Although, 3 years? I mean, I could have learned his native language in that amount of time.

Not a privatized judicial system, but an additional system called "Finding interpretors to better prosecute violent and sexual offenders" that could have been fully funding by the private sector

Your "socialized" hypothetical is flawed because we both know if those programs were cut and we had more money, people would want a bigger tax cut, not a new round of useful programs

Or we could have the government do it, which I thought you'd decry

[P/N]

Originally Posted by Simius

Fair trials are the most important part of our legal system. A trial where the accused can barely understand the charges or the evidence presented against him isn't fair. With that said, wtf indeed.

Did you miss the part where he speaks english? Or what about where in just one night, reporters were able to locate three translators that could have helped with the case?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by P/N

Did you miss the part where he speaks english? Or what about where in just one night, reporters were able to locate three translators that could have helped with the case?

Yea, he attended HS and college in America... in English. Looks like he used the interpreter as a means to get out of his charges. I don't know where I stand on this, basically this man could go on a killing spree and we couldn't do anything to him. It's a shame.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Not a privatized judicial system, but an additional system called "Finding interpretors to better prosecute violent and sexual offenders" that could have been fully funding by the private sector

Your "socialized" hypothetical is flawed because we both know if those programs were cut and we had more money, people would want a bigger tax cut, not a new round of useful programs

Or we could have the government do it, which I thought you'd decry

Again, since this is a judiciary problem, I would want the government to do it as would any other sensible person. As much as you'd like it to be so, this isn't a "libertarian vs. everyone else" or "privitized vs socialized" debate... esp since this is a local judiciary, so it's paid for by LOCAL taxes.

Originally Posted by The Article

The Washington Post wrote in its article that in just one night reporters were independently able to identify three Vai translators available to assist in the case. It noted that the need for interpreters has risen starkly in Montgomery County, Md., with the court system spending $1 million in interpreters in 2006, or 10 times the amount it spent in 2000.

Seems to me they've been spending the money to get interpreters in there, and there's really no excuse for them to not have gotten a Val interpreter into the court. I'm sure there's something the article isn't telling us, but this seems inexcusable that they couldn't even TRY the guy (regardless of his guilt).

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by P/N

Did you miss the part where he speaks english? Or what about where in just one night, reporters were able to locate three translators that could have helped with the case?

I am sure the prosecturos office for three years tried very hard...after spending all that money on DNA testing...to get a translator...that some people were showing up at the 11th hour claiming to be translators...take with a grain of salt

And a lot of hispanics in Philadelphia can speak english with detectives about basics...meaning that the detectives give very simplistic and long statements, and they basically go "yes" or "no" with a BASIC understanding of what was said...

Basically it'd be like trying a 18 year old high school senior with 3 years of Spanish in a Colombian court and expecting him to under what was going on because he was able to tell the detectives what time it was, what color his outfit was, and other such basic things that people easily pickup about another language

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Yea, he attended HS and college in America... in English. Looks like he used the interpreter as a means to get out of his charges. I don't know where I stand on this, basically this man could go on a killing spree and we couldn't do anything to him. It's a shame.

Showing up to HS or College where they teach English doesn't mean anything...do you have a copy of his exams where he speaks fluent english? I am sure that would be available in discovery to the prosecution considering they had 3 years

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Again, since this is a judiciary problem, I would want the government to do it as would any other sensible person. As much as you'd like it to be so, this isn't a "libertarian vs. everyone else" or "privitized vs socialized" debate... esp since this is a local judiciary, so it's paid for by LOCAL taxes.



Seems to me they've been spending the money to get interpreters in there, and there's really no excuse for them to not have gotten a Val interpreter into the court. I'm sure there's something the article isn't telling us, but this seems inexcusable that they couldn't even TRY the guy (regardless of his guilt).

1) For the time being, agree to disagree

2) Something is missing and I don't think it's the prosecutor AND court both being completely useless for 3 years...I think it's a lack of resources where rapes happen everyday in this country

[Simius]

Originally Posted by P/N

Did you miss the part where he speaks english? Or what about where in just one night, reporters were able to locate three translators that could have helped with the case?

No I didn't miss that. That's why I added the "WTF indeed" part to my post. It is incompetence not to be able to get a translator within 3 years. Plain and simple. As far as how well he actually speaks English, I'm not sure. I could order a hamburger and fries in Mexico... But I wouldn't understand a trial against me in Spanish. Maybe this guy knows enough basic English to get through high school, but that doesn't mean he is fluent enough in English to understand everything that is said in a trial in English.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

1) For the time being, agree to disagree

2) Something is missing and I don't think it's the prosecutor AND court both being completely useless for 3 years...I think it's a lack of resources where rapes happen everyday in this country

What? Disagree about what? I didn't know there was a disagreement. Unless it's that I don't think you should be attacking political ideals in a thread about the judiciary since this has NOTHING to do with political ideals.

I agree that something is missing... this article just didn't do a good job of talking to people to find out the reason they couldn't find an interpreter. Maybe they had quite a few but they kept quitting, or maybe the courts were slammed with other cases for the entire 3 years (although that seems unlikely given the size and location of the city).

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Makes perfect crystal clear sense

You are assumed innocent until proven guilty...so you have an innocent man waiting for trial for YEARS, and with virtually no prospect of getting a translator so he can fully comprehend what is going on...at least in the near future...the founding fathers were quite insistent that you do not have people charged and then waiting for a trial for 10-20 years

The free market could have stepped in and law and order libertarians could have conducted a much better search than calling up an embassy, and found a person who spoke english in Liberia...they couldn't even afford to check every jurisdiction

A more funded federal government could have conducted the search, but we all want to cut the size of the government

So in the end, you want lower taxes, and you want the right to trials that don't last 10 years? This is the price you pay

It makes zero sense. If the guy went to high school and attended college in the US he has an understand of the English langauge. It was nothing more than an excuse and you of all people should know that. You seem to be pretty familiar with the legal system here, how is this not a complete failure of our system? If the guy were here for 6 months and didn't understand the language that would be one thing but he's spent years here.

What would you propose they do? Allow a potential child molester to go free with no trial?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

It makes zero sense. If the guy went to high school and attended college in the US he has an understand of the English langauge. It was nothing more than an excuse and you of all people should know that. You seem to be pretty familiar with the legal system here, how is this not a complete failure of our system? If the guy were here for 6 months and didn't understand the language that would be one thing but he's spent years here.

What would you propose they do? Allow a potential child molester to go free with no trial?

Yes, I do know the system well, and they aren't going to hold back how many LEGAL hispanic kids who aren't mastering english but getting As in Spanish (naturally)...

On the legal side, at first I always used to think "oh yeah they can understand stuff, they are just being difficult" but after you interview enough people who are either:
A) Trying to get themselves out of trouble
B) Trying to get their friend out of trouble

and are completely unable to without the assistance of a translator, they try very hard and often fuck up a trial because their testimony lasts for 4 hours when it should have been 20 minutes...yes these people graduated high school

a rape trial is very complicated, and with the DNA evidence...defense motions, etc etc...trust me it gets complicated beyond belief almost instantly, anyone here who speaks fluent english would have a very tough time keeping up, but they could barely do it if they are given a lot of time during the trial

A guy who doesn't speak english well? Forget it, he'll have no idea what's going on when the prosecutor starts using Latin phrases and complicated legal jargon...some of that stuff you can't just explain in urban english that is your 2nd language...you need your natural language

There's a chance this is somewhat of a scam, but all the elements are there that it'd be an enormous strains on your rights and mine if we didn't accept this ruling as just

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Yes, I do know the system well, and they aren't going to hold back how many LEGAL hispanic kids who aren't mastering english but getting As in Spanish (naturally)...

On the legal side, at first I always used to think "oh yeah they can understand stuff, they are just being difficult" but after you interview enough people who are either:
A) Trying to get themselves out of trouble
B) Trying to get their friend out of trouble

and are completely unable to without the assistance of a translator, they try very hard and often fuck up a trial because their testimony lasts for 4 hours when it should have been 20 minutes...yes these people graduated high school

a rape trial is very complicated, and with the DNA evidence...defense motions, etc etc...trust me it gets complicated beyond belief almost instantly, anyone here who speaks fluent english would have a very tough time keeping up, but they could barely do it if they are given a lot of time during the trial

A guy who doesn't speak english well? Forget it, he'll have no idea what's going on when the prosecutor starts using Latin phrases and complicated legal jargon...some of that stuff you can't just explain in urban english that is your 2nd language...you need your natural language

There's a chance this is somewhat of a scam, but all the elements are there that it'd be an enormous strains on your rights and mine if we didn't accept this ruling as just

Ok thats a pretty good take on things...however I still ahve some questions. I can understand passing high school but college is a completely different thing. Reading requirements as you already know dwarf even the most difficult high school classes and tests are generally the same. How could he get through college, whether community college or ivy league without understand our language?

Furthermore how could the government not find a translator?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Ok thats a pretty good take on things...however I still ahve some questions. I can understand passing high school but college is a completely different thing. Reading requirements as you already know dwarf even the most difficult high school classes and tests are generally the same. How could he get through college, whether community college or ivy league without understand our language?

Furthermore how could the government not find a translator?

1) Since there's never been an actual trial due to a lack of a translator, these whole 3 years have been "discovery" where both sides exchange evidence and look up possible facts...a motion to review his exam materials or interview his professors to see how fluent he was...would be an obvious step for even a law student let alone a prosecutor if there was a serious case he could speak english well enough to understand a rape trial...that there is no mention of that by fox...who would undoubtably have called the prosecutor...raises my suspicions that this isn't just a silly scam

2) Courts don't stand still on cases, they move with whatever is infront of their plate, the job of finding a translator was always a secondary job to the court, and saying "they checked jurisdictions in 47 states" sounds impressive but really all that means is they made 47 phone calls to 47 different cities and couldn't find anyone, they didn't call EVERY jurisdiction (there are hundreds) and they seem to only have placed a call to an embassy...and Liberia is...Liberia...

They should have gotten some federal assistance, the CIA has ears everywhere and translators for almost everything, and the FBI helps prosecutors all the time...supposedly the FBI and CIA work closely these days, there should have been no trouble getting a translator if their were proper channels, but chances are funding and red tape made the task next to impossible

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

1) Since there's never been an actual trial due to a lack of a translator, these whole 3 years have been "discovery" where both sides exchange evidence and look up possible facts...a motion to review his exam materials or interview his professors to see how fluent he was...would be an obvious step for even a law student let alone a prosecutor if there was a serious case he could speak english well enough to understand a rape trial...that there is no mention of that by fox...who would undoubtably have called the prosecutor...raises my suspicions that this isn't just a silly scam

2) Courts don't stand still on cases, they move with whatever is infront of their plate, the job of finding a translator was always a secondary job to the court, and saying "they checked jurisdictions in 47 states" sounds impressive but really all that means is they made 47 phone calls to 47 different cities and couldn't find anyone, they didn't call EVERY jurisdiction (there are hundreds) and they seem to only have placed a call to an embassy...and Liberia is...Liberia...

They should have gotten some federal assistance, the CIA has ears everywhere and translators for almost everything, and the FBI helps prosecutors all the time...supposedly the FBI and CIA work closely these days, there should have been no trouble getting a translator if their were proper channels, but chances are funding and red tape made the task next to impossible

Fair points on all counts...

Which brings me to the government and the prosecution. Should the prosecution have pressed the government just as you suggested to get a translator via the FBI/CIA/Embassy??? Seems to me that in three years this would have been easily attainable had the prosecutor and/or government attempted to do so.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Fair points on all counts...

Which brings me to the government and the prosecution. Should the prosecution have pressed the government just as you suggested to get a translator via the FBI/CIA/Embassy??? Seems to me that in three years this would have been easily attainable had the prosecutor and/or government attempted to do so.

The question is...who exactly would they call? Courts like to be independent and there isn't exactly an FBI hotline for troubled prosecutors...generally DA's call detectives/local law enforcement who then contact the federal law enforcement and get federal backgrounds and other materials...

So the prosecutor probably had the local law enforcement say "we have no idea who we'd call for a Liberian translator" and if they did contact the Feds, they'd get the run around because these people are used to doing backround checks not "find a translator for a random jurisdiction"

Courts usually have their own city/area funded translator service, my guess is they called every jurisdiction they could think would have access to a wide variety of translators (New York jurisdictions, Chicago, LA, Miami, Boston, etc) and when they came up blank, they basically stopped, and for the next 2 years they basically "waited" for someone to call them back or some place to help them out...(for example, I bet some New York court clerk told them they think they could have got someone but it might take awhile...and never called back)

I'm starting to get pretty deep into the speculation though, there aren't a lot of facts in the article

[AVengeance]

Originally Posted by Simius

Fair trials are the most important part of our legal system. A trial where the accused can barely understand the charges or the evidence presented against him isn't fair. With that said, wtf indeed.

But he did understand English. he just claimed he couldn't understand (on some mystery level) the charges waged against him. BS. You rape child. Child rape bad. How hard is that to understand?

This is actually a pretty good argument for forcing people that want to live in our country to learn English. If you cannot understand that you've done something wrong because of such a language barrier, you should be deported.