Is the cease-fire already doomed?

[JaJae]

Israel is getting upset with France for lying about sending troops. There aren't enough troops in the region to enforce the cease-fire.
Israel says France not keeping promise on troop commitment - Haaretz - Israel News

Israel says France not keeping promise on troop commitment
By Haaretz Service and Agencies

Officials in Jerusalem expressed disappointment at what they view as French backtracking on an earlier commitment to send thousands of soldiers to take part in the UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon, Israel Radio reported on Saturday.

Foreign Ministry sources said Jerusalem expects France to "come to its senses and abide by its word," adding that the UN force should be a robust one which would be authorized to act in order to enforce the terms of the cease-fire.

Meanwhile Israel invaded Lebanon again to cut off military supplies from Iran and Syria to Hezbollah. They say that they will continue such efforts until there is a UN Peace force in the region to carry out such tasks.
Israel Carries Out Raid Deep Into Lebanon - New York Times

JERUSALEM, Aug. 19 — Israeli aircraft and commandos carried out a raid deep into Lebanon on Saturday, clashing with Hezbollah forces near Baalbek and killing three, Lebanese officials said. One Israeli officer died.

The Israeli army confirmed the raid some 60 miles north of the border and said it was aimed at disrupting the continuing shipment of weapons to Hezbollah guerrillas from Iran and Syria.

Hezbollah said its fighters repulsed the commandos, who were airlifted in together with two jeeps near the village of Bodai. Israel said that one officer was killed, another seriously wounded and a third lightly wounded.

Both any resupply of weapons and the raid itself appear to constitute violations of the cease-fire resolution passed by the United Nations Security Council.

The Israeli army said it would continue such raids until "proper monitoring bodies are established on the Lebanese borders," another task for the United Nations forces in Lebanon, or Unifil.

Meanwhile, Hezbollah is killing Israeli soldiers in the West Bank.
Aljazeera.Net - Israeli soldier killed in W Bank

A Palestinian gunman has shot dead an Israeli soldier at a military checkpoint in the northern West Bank.

The Israeli army said on Saturday that the shooting occurred near the Jewish settlement of Beqaot.

Israel claims they were allowed to enter Lebanon because:

"If the Syrians and Iran continue to arm Hezbollah in violation of the (U.N. cease-fire) resolution, Israel is entitled to act to defend the principle of the arms embargo," Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Mark Regev said.

I'm gonna have to go ahead an agree with Israel on this issue again. I disagreed with them pushing further into Lebanon after the cease-fire was drafted and waiting to go into effect.

But here, I think they made the right move. There is a cease-fire. Hezbollah isn't supposed to continue arming themselves. There is no UN peace keeping force (Fucking French) and Israel has to do what it's doing to defend itself. The US has said they would help with logistics, but can't send troops because it would be like putting lightning rods in the region.

Sometimes I wonder if France is going out of their way to destablize the region. If they're not illegally trading arms, smuggling through the food for oil campaign or making empty peace keeping promises they're sitting on their asses pretending to be on the moral high ground.

[thomez]

maybe they just realize this cease-fire has no chance and they wish to not waste their time on such doomed efforts?

[ballz2wallz]

it was doomed the first day when hezbollah fired rockets in lebanon, lebanon refused to disarm hezbollah, and france refused to send in troops.

did anyone really believe it would hold?

[motivez]

Um, the article says a Palestinian man, not Hezbollah or Lebanese? 404 Hezbollah killing Israeli's not found in that incident...

Lastly, I don't know why anyone would expect Hezbollah to freely disarm themselves. They don't think they're wrong the same way Israel doesn't think they're wrong.

If the resolution required Israel to disarm, do you think they would? Of course not. Both view the keeping of arms as a means to defend themselves and their nation.

I think maybe we didn't want a ceasefire to hold, which is why we didn't push for it to be a NATO force and instead relied on the notoriously wishy washy UN and France to send a force with such a weak mandate..

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by motivez

Lastly, I don't know why anyone would expect Hezbollah to freely disarm themselves. They don't think they're wrong the same way Israel doesn't think they're wrong.

they agreed to the agreement

if they didn't want to disarm, they shouldn't have agreed.

[Donkey®]

"Israel invaded Lebanon"

That's who broke the cease fire. "Hezbollah arming themselves" is not Israel's concern...if people are arming them, breaking the UN resolution, then that's the UN Security council's domain...not Israel's.

Also, Palestinian man killing soldier in Gaza (Why are they still in gaza to begin with?) has nothing to do with the ceasefire.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

they agreed to the agreement

if they didn't want to disarm, they shouldn't have agreed.

We've discussed this. Hezbollah did NOT agree to disarm below the river. There are provisions in there against OTHERS arming Hezbollah...take it up with them once you provide proof of whom is arming them.

[JaJae]

Sitting around and watching Muslim extremists arm themselves, even after military action is something you would think we would have learned from by now.

Israel is acting in the best interest of its people. Hezbollah is preparing for round two. There is no reason Israel should stand around and wait for it.

The UN is a joke. They were supposed to be there now preventing this. Since they're not, Israel is.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

"Hezbollah arming themselves" is not Israel's concern...if people are arming them, breaking the UN resolution, then that's the UN Security council's domain...not Israel's.

that's like saying the taliban or al qaeda arming themselves is not our concern :happysad:

[Thorgrim]

Ofcourse, the war-mongering IDF broke the cease-fire, thats why Hezbollah shouldn't disarm: you can't trust the IDF to respect anything

[JaJae]

I don't blame the Israelis. I blame the French and their military for not keeping their word. Oh and I blame the countries illegally selling weapons to Hezbollah. If the UN and France are gonna make resolutions and promises regarding the safety of Israel and then not follow through, Israel should have the right in my opinion to carry out those promises and resolutions in their place.

[JaJae]

Keep in mind the cease-fire was intended to be enforced with a strong UN force in the thousands led by the French. It has been 5 days now and France is just now sending FIFTY ENGINEERS (not even soldiers) to the region. In the meantime nations are violating the terms of the cease-fire, Israel has not received its soldiers and Hezbollah is rearming.

It's amazing to see people can actually fault Israel on this. If we were in their shoes I would hope we would have done the same thing.

[Thorgrim]

The ceasefire was an agreement ISRAEL SIGNED ON TO, now the post-ceasfire terms were still being worked out, they were not reneging...they were just working out the force composition and so forth...these things take time, Israel knew that, it did not expect that as soon the ceasefire went into effect the UN would energize over, this is not star trek

Why should I believe the IDF when it says it has intelligence on the bekka valley, I think 34 days showed that their intelligence is a joke, after saying they "seriously destroyed hezbollah" the last day before the ceasefire Hezbollah disabled tanks, killed soldiers and launched some 200 rockets...just as effective as ever

Just like with the ethnic cleansing in the south, they are breaking their word and international agreements because they have little regard for morality and want to push the UN out so they can start their ethnic cleansing campaign and warcrimes again, but they can't do that until the peacekeeping force is out of the way...so they'll find little things to do until they've broken the ceasefire

They gave their word, they signed onto a ceasefire, as the Lebanese army took up positions and the UN was making up its force, they broke it, you can't trust them

They aren't any good with honor or keeping their word, the only successful thing they accomplished the past 2 months were war crimes

[JaJae]

Yes it was an agreement that Israel agreed to. An agreement that Lebanon, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, etc are ignoring.

How many Israelis have to die because of this cease-fire this agreement that no other nation is holding up?

Where is Israel's soldiers? Why is Hezbollah rearming? Where is Lebanon to take control? Where's the UN?

Why do people expect Israel to just sit there, shutup and continue to get abused? Why is Israel's honor in question when everyone else has been ignoring the agreement from day one? They waited almost a week. How much longer do they have to wait? How much stronger does Hezbollah have to get? How many Israelis have to die before they can do something?

[Thorgrim]

Since when did Syria and Iran sign on to it? Heck when did even Hezbollah sign on to it?

Israelis were dying in droves when the ceasefire wasn't in effect...if they didn't like the terms they should have rejected it, but they want it both ways, they don't want their asses kicked by hezbollah, or rockets reigning down on them, but they want to conduct raids and airstrikes...you can't have it both ways

Lebanon is taking control of the southern border...how many rockets have been launched into Israel? The UN force is forming, what did you expect it'd be done over night? Israel didn't demand a timetable in the resolution

They aren't getting abused at all, the only people being abused are the Lebanese again

Hezbollah is keeping its word on this ceasefire so far, and the IDF isn't...pretty sad you should trust terrorists more than the IDF, but with all the war crimes they've racked up maybe they are getting a little too close to description of terrorists

[JaJae]

If you were in charge of Israel right now and under these circumstances what would you have done? Sat and waited around while Hezbollah was armed illegally behind the UN's back who didn't even bother to show up? Be the only coutnry following a resolution that was drafted under the assumption that Israel wouldn't have been betrayed by France? In all honesty would you have waited and watched as Hezbollah didn't return your countrymen, voilated the terms of the cease fire and continued to arm themselves illegally?

If so I'd say you'd be too weak to last in the middle east. The only reason Israel is still standing is because they don't put up with this shit.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

If you were in charge of Israel right now and under these circumstances what would you have done? Sat and waited around while Hezbollah was armed illegally behind the UN's back who didn't even bother to show up? Be the only coutnry following a resolution that was drafted under the assumption that Israel wouldn't have been betrayed by France? In all honesty would you have waited and watched as Hezbollah didn't return your countrymen, voilated the terms of the cease fire and continued to arm themselves illegally?

If so I'd say you'd be too weak to last in the middle east. The only reason Israel is still standing is because they don't put up with this shit.

I wouldn't break my word, there is a concept called honor

Who says Hezbollah is being armed illegally right now? IDF's pathetic Mossad?

All of the foreign money is coming in to help rebuild Lebanon, there simply isn't enough money to do that and do some major re-arming...its all BS to start up their ethnic cleansing campaign

France didn't betray anything, they are forming a UN force with diversity, this was not supposed to be a French-only UN force

You keep basing you defense on faulty premises

[JaJae]

First of all spare me rhetoric of how Israel got their ass kicked. It's unrelated and unfounded. Look at the numbers dead and wounded (you can even include the ones Hezbollah is pretending).

Secondly, how can you say Israel isn't getting abused? They agreed to the terms. They invaded for their soldiers. They agreed under the assumption that there would be a UN peacekeeping force preventing Hezbollah from rearming, a force preventing further attacks and the return of their soldiers.

NONE of this has taken place and Hezbollah is already starting to receive more arms. Israel did their part. They stop fighting and left. The world and the middle east once again aren't playing fair and not living up to the terms.

And to say Syria and Iran didn't agree to the resolution doesn't matter. They're part of the UN. If they don't want to follow through on UN action then they can leave and stop bitching. It'll probably be better for the world if they didn't have a voice. That's like saying France didn't do anything wrong win the food for oil or selling Iraq weapons despite the ban because they may not have signed it personally.

[Thorgrim]

No proof Hezbollah is recieving arms...they are recieving aid to rebuild all the civilian houses the IDF destroyed

Show me the time-table on the UN part of the ceasefire agreement? there isn't one, you keep repeating it...its not going to become true if you keep saying it over and over

It's simple, Israel not only agreed to the resolution but also agreed to a ceasefire, they broke their own word, thats the only fact in this case, everything else is conjecture and speculation

[thomez]

Israel was still firing on Hezbollah targets the day they signed the cease-fire