Extremely Conservative Pope Benedict XVI: Creationism debate "absurdity"

[Thorgrim]

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI said the debate raging in some countries — particularly the United States and his native Germany — between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith.

The pontiff, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said that while there is much scientific proof to support evolution, the theory could not exclude a role by God.

“They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”

Pope: Creation vs. evolution an ‘absurdity’ - Focus on the Vatican - MSNBC.com

Praise the Lord!

I'll be the first to say, as someone raised a Catholic, I find this pope to be horrifically conservative and anti-science, but even HE understands that evolution is overwhelming AND it does not destroy faith or christianity or any such nonsense

So all you Mike Huckabees and other Republican nominees and their supporters can now embrace evolution and realize that has little to nothing to do with your religion

Creationism is dead, praise the lord and let's never speak of it again

[Linzyhop]

although i agree with you thor, the majority of american conservative christians -aren't- catholic and wouldn't care what the pope would say either way.

and i definitely think this pope has a few loose, but this is one good thing in a sea of stupid that he's saying.

[ballz2wallz]

at 'extremely conservative pope'. Is that a comparison to other popes? What makes a pope 'conservative'?

I don't think the majority of protestant Christians care what the Pope has to say.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

at 'extremely conservative pope'. Is that a comparison to other popes? What makes a pope 'conservative'?

Looking back to a more traditional view than other popes?

Anyway, some popes who were very progressive for their time:
Pope Pius VII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pope Benedict XV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

at 'extremely conservative pope'. Is that a comparison to other popes? What makes a pope 'conservative'?

I don't think the majority of protestant Christians care what the Pope has to say.

well he's definitely not progressive. instead of furthering Catholicism in the world, i would say he's gone two steps back...

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Looking back to a more traditional view than other popes?

Anyway, some popes who were very progressive for their time:
Pope Pius VII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pope Benedict XV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Popes from the 17- and 1800s

Well, it's obvious from his stand on creationism that he isn't as conservative as you claim...certainly not 'extermely conservative'

[motivez]

So you're saying the conservative position would be to ignore the science?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Popes from the 17- and 1800s

Well, it's obvious from his stand on creationism that he isn't as conservative as you claim...certainly not 'extermely conservative'

Do I have to point out the Obvious that the papacy has been arond for roughly 2000 years...to cite the last roughly 10% of church history is pretty recent...I mean, If someone asked me to name my two favorite former popes for almost 30 years into the past, I'd be unable to answer because there's only one former pope since 1978

Don't treat popes like Presidents...they don't have 4 year terms

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by motivez

So you're saying the conservative position would be to ignore the science?

In papal politics, the reactionary position (conservative) would be to be more anti-science

[Publius]

Sounds like you guys are arguing with Thorgrim just to argue. It is well documented that Pope Benedict XVI is much more conservative than other recent Popes, including John Paul II. That was considered by many old school Catholics to be a desirable trait when he was selected.

Though Thorgrim you're wrong too ... The near-30 year papacy of JPII was an oddity. There have been 265 Popes in the roughly 2000 years that a Pope has been documented to exist (starting with St. Peter, who became Pope in 30 A.D. according to Church documentation). That averages out to an average Papal reign of roughly 7.5 years.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Popes from the 17- and 1800s

Well, it's obvious from his stand on creationism that he isn't as conservative as you claim...certainly not 'extermely conservative'

He is definately conservative man. This isn't an arguement anyone should be having.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

although i agree with you thor, the majority of american conservative christians -aren't- catholic and wouldn't care what the pope would say either way.

and i definitely think this pope has a few loose, but this is one good thing in a sea of stupid that he's saying.

Shit, half of the Catholics in the US don't care what the pope says. How many Catholics use birth control?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

He is definately conservative man. This isn't an arguement anyone should be having.

I wouldn't know, I don't listen to the Pope, I listen to God

[IminWonderland]

I think the idea that science and religion can coexist is more what the Pope is trying to say.

And I think it's great of him to propogate that.

Why argue over the Beggining? It already happened, let's move on to more pressing matters.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I wouldn't know, I don't listen to the Pope, I listen to God

now now. It's not nice to make fun of other people's religion. Some people take the pope very seriously.

[imind]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I wouldn't know, I don't listen to the Pope, I listen to God

one could argue your dismissal of the pope is unbiblical.

as a former catholic, i still keep up with the papacy for some reason, and all reports after jp2's death and benedicts succession were of how conservative he is. for those interested...

Pope Benedict XVI

Originally Posted by linz

although i agree with you thor, the majority of american conservative christians -aren't- catholic and wouldn't care what the pope would say either way.

many christians don't even think roman catholicism should be considered a christian denomination. i can see this statement by the pope as fueling this thought among creationists in other denominations.

Originally Posted by wonderland

Why argue over the Beggining? It already happened, let's move on to more pressing matters.

evolution is, of course, still happening, and i think the dilemma has to do with curricula.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

Sounds like you guys are arguing with Thorgrim just to argue. It is well documented that Pope Benedict XVI is much more conservative than other recent Popes, including John Paul II. That was considered by many old school Catholics to be a desirable trait when he was selected.

Though Thorgrim you're wrong too ... The near-30 year papacy of JPII was an oddity. There have been 265 Popes in the roughly 2000 years that a Pope has been documented to exist (starting with St. Peter, who became Pope in 30 A.D. according to Church documentation). That averages out to an average Papal reign of roughly 7.5 years.

Take out multiple "declared" popes, and take only clearly recognized popes that served in that capacity for a year, and the number goes down, extending it beyond 7.5

For our specific purposes of "recent history":
Pius VII (1800-23)
Leo XII (1823-29)
Gregory XVI (1831-46)
Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
Leo XIII (1878-1903)
St. Pius X (1903-14)
Benedict XV (1914-22)
Pius XI (1922-39)
Pius XII (1939-58)
Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
Paul VI (1963-78)
John Paul II (1978-2005)

I cited 2 of the last 12 former popes (who lasted more than around a year) as being progressive...a good comparison...looking back at the last 12 presidents...only 3: FDR, LBJ, and Clinton, would I call progressive, and there are many would say Clinton's presidency was very moderate

It appears to be a great comparison

Note: If you use my list, over the past 205 years before Benedict XVI the average papacy is 17 years...many times more than you're silly 7

Even if you count the shortest papacy in history, where he basically was elected and died a few weeks later (Is that really time to establish a papal reign?) It only adds 2 more popes...and in 205 years before Benedict XVI the average papacy is 15 years...again even using the total numbers of "papal reigns" of the latest time period, the average papacy is double what you say, and almost double a 2 term president

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by imind

many christians don't even think roman catholicism should be considered a christian denomination. i can see this statement by the pope as fueling this thought among creationists in other denominations.

which is kindof stupid since catholicism was the original Christianity....

look at me arguing the validity of catholicism!