Passengers refuse to allow holiday jet to take off until two Asian men are thrown off - Page 2

SpicyMcVoodoo · 08-20-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

So are you suggesting that it's somehow more acceptable to be racist and irrationally fearful of someone who looks different simply because some other people with the same color skin do bad things?

Yes, exactly, intent matters. If it's your intent to use racism as an excuse to enrich yourself and impovrish others out of pure greed, that's qualitatively worse than using race as a survival tool. I'm not saying either is great, but the difference is worth nothing.

Anyway, I disagree that this story was about race or skin color. Like I said before, if I saw two white guys speaking Arabic and wearing large jackets in the heat, I'd be equally as suspicious as if I saw two asians. It's about suspicious behavior given the circumstances, not skin color.

motivez · 08-20-2006, 01:34 PM

I don't think it matters, racism is never acceptable. It's irrational and it makes no sense to be afraid of an entire ethnic group simply because of a few bad apples.

There might be a "lesser degree" of racism, but both are equally unacceptable. It's impossible to justify racism. Individuals may be bad, an ethnicity is not.

Also, Pakistani / Indian is "Asian" in the UK.

They weren't even speaking Arabic, it apparently "sounded like Arabic", and because their skin was a different color, they assumed it was.

I honestly doubt most of us would give it a second thought if we saw two white guys speaking Russian or something wearing a leather jacket.. it's easy and convienent to say you would, but I don't think most people pay that much attention to the folks around them.

If one was checking their watch every few minutes, you'd assume they were impatient, not a Chechnyan terrorist..

It's completely about race. I don't see how you can say it's not when it's central to the reason they were thrown off the plane.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 08-20-2006, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't think it matters, racism is never acceptable. It's irrational and it makes no sense to be afraid of an entire ethnic group simply because of a few bad apples.

But I don't think every time you take into account race it's necessarily racism. If you're looking for suspicious behavior, you have to take into account culture and background, and a rough approximation of that can be skin color.

I have no idea what these people looked like or what language they really were speaking. I'm assuming it actually was Arabic for the sake of argument, and I've been assuming they were east asian, e.g., indonesia.

Originally Posted by motivez

I honestly doubt most of us would give it a second thought if we saw two white guys speaking Russian or something wearing a leather jacket.. it's easy and convienent to say you would, but I don't think most people pay that much attention to the folks around them.

If one was checking their watch every few minutes, you'd assume they were impatient, not a Chechnyan terrorist..

I have no idea what I'd do, because I'm not a security expert...but I don't think a security expert would be doing his job if he didn't notice two russian guys wearing huge jackets despite the heat and nervously checking their watches. I think that behavior is suspicious no matter who does it, regardless of how apt the public is to notice it depending on race.

Stylerod · 08-20-2006, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Another reason that I think racial profiling is BULLSHIT. It teaches people to be scared of people who are different

OMG! They were checking their watches! Can't be because they wanted to know what time it was, or were impatient like a lot of travelers. I mean, they're ASIAN! That starts with A like ARAB, and we know they're terrorists!

Speaking a foreign language that sounds Arabic is enough to apparently make you a terrorist too.

Because refusing to fly with someone because of their race isn't RACIST enough!

Seriously, do you people who support racial profiling not see that this is all that it will lead to? Fear and irrational suspicion of people who have NOTHING to do with the extremists simply because they look similar?

If passengers knew that the airport was probably a little more thourough with these guys because they were Asian (Muslim), wearing large coats, acting strangly etc, maybe they would feel safer and realize these guys were probably looked at very carefully and there is nothing to worry about.

BUT, it still sucks for those two guys and I'm surprised the airline let it go as long as it did.

Kytro · 08-20-2006, 08:06 PM

The airline really should ahve allowed those people that didn't want to fly to leave.

If they trust their own security procedures, that is.

PetriW · 08-20-2006, 08:47 PM

Some fun on the topic:
YouTube - Final boarding call for Mr Terrorist

Kytro · 08-20-2006, 08:59 PM

The Chaser is awesome

7960 · 08-21-2006, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

the airline should have just left anyone who didn't want to go and refused to refund them

that's what they'd do here without 2nd thought

this is 100% correct.

and yes, this is where profiling gets you - on a direct path to racism

This is not.

the men were checked, re-checked, and were good to go. Individual people showed their racist streaks and had every right to get off the plane (no refund, of course) but this has nothing to do with profiling.

thomez · 08-21-2006, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

This is not.

the men were checked, re-checked, and were good to go. Individual people showed their racist streaks and had every right to get off the plane (no refund, of course) but this has nothing to do with profiling.

profiling is racial discrimination, there is no way to avoid that fact

7960 · 08-21-2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

profiling is racial discrimination, there is no way to avoid that fact

no, it's not, but we've covered this in the 11thbillion other threads on this topic.

thomez · 08-21-2006, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

no, it's not, but we've covered this in the 11thbillion other threads on this topic.

acting discriminately based on race - is it not?

Kytro · 08-21-2006, 01:59 AM

Well of course profiling is "racial discrimination". The question really is, is it arbituary or not?

7960 · 08-21-2006, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

acting discriminately based on race - is it not?

"profiling" is selecing the most obvious choice based on statistics....... it's not inherently racist

thomez · 08-21-2006, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

"profiling" is selecing the most obvious choice based on statistics....... it's not inherently racist

please just answer the question sir

are 2 people treated differently because of their race in "profiling"

Diesel66 · 08-21-2006, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

please just answer the question sir

are 2 people treated differently because of their race in "profiling"

depends on the peramaters though. Young men traveling alone on one way tickets is a good profiling technique.

Donkey® · 08-21-2006, 02:14 AM

What are they actually profiling by though? Profiling on the fact that someone is Muslim isn't racist. BUT, profiling someone based on their religion is IMPOSSIBLE. So what's that leave? They are profiling based on someone's race. Seems racist to me.

thomez · 08-21-2006, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

depends on the peramaters though. Young men traveling alone on one way tickets is a good profiling technique.

sure, that is profiling in a non-racial way

phreak · 08-21-2006, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

Should we throw someone off a plane because we think they're a pedophile because they happen to speak english and have white skin like John Karr?

How about a black man because they're wearing 'gangsterish' clothes? They might try to steal wallets mid flight

pedophiles and gangsters didn't hijack planes and crash them into buildings on american soil. pedophiles and gangsters weren't recently apprehended for planning to blow up numerous flights from the uk to the states.

WickedLou9 · 08-21-2006, 09:51 AM

Arabs have brought this on themselves. This isn't some unfounded fear of islamic people. People fear arabs because every recent terrorist plot has been perpetrated by arabs. It's because arabs are calling for the destruction of isreal and the US. it's because Arabs have set the example that they want to kill us. Those arabs who don't agree with the radicals certainly have been keeping quiet about all of this haven't they... leading everyone else to believe they they either agree with the radicals or simply don't care. Either way they are part of the problem.

Scrum · 08-21-2006, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Arabs have brought this on themselves. This isn't some unfounded fear of islamic people. People fear arabs because every recent terrorist plot has been perpetrated by arabs. It's because arabs are calling for the destruction of isreal and the US. it's because Arabs have set the example that they want to kill us. Those arabs who don't agree with the radicals certainly have been keeping quiet about all of this haven't they... leading everyone else to believe they they either agree with the radicals or simply don't care. Either way they are part of the problem.

So it's the 99.9% of normal Arabs fault now?

Do you want them out on the street apologizing to everyone they see every time there is a terror attack or one is stopped? It's stupid to blame them all for the acts of a few.