My God Story

[Roonie]

OK, this seems very odd to me as I cant imagine not having one I've always had one. I can even remember realising that I had one I was about 4 & was failing to get to sleep coz the sound of my heart pumping was keeping me awake & I was wondering why it was of differing loudness depending on which side I slept.

Before I had no use for internal dialogue. It was more just streaming thoughts without reflection. Not until I became aware did I actually have a real dialogue within.

On the very odd occasion that I experience a 'moment of connectedness', there is very little inner dialogue for me apart from 'will you look at that?' 'yes its amazing isnt it'. Any questioning of the experience beyond 'this is one of the those moments' 'yes' kills it. typically its killed by 'dont start thinking again you'll kill it'

Very true. This was the case at first for me as well. My third internal voice questions all the time and this is not my God voice and it did ruin it for me. Then the experience and the internal voice or God's voice was one and the same. The two are now indistinguishable from each other. At a peak experience it almost sounds like music now.... like Mozart. My God voice does not question at times like these... it is one and the same as the experience. I have no other way of describing it but they are both present.

But I've never felt any need to see it as divine,tho' I accept that it might be.

Equally I accept that it might me 'noise' in that part of the brain that assigns relative importance to newly recognised patterns. ie its no different than the idiocy of LSD induced beliefs that some particular stone, (& no other), found whilst out & about contains all the 'secrets of the universe' etc.

The only thing I can say here is that our minds try to make it more complicated then it really is. It is very simple, almost too simple. If you aren't expecting miracles one might just happen. In other words I have found to look in the simplest places for answers and when you least expect them they happen. If you are open to it you will understand the meanings meant for you.

[avsp]

You judge my description of my 'odd' moments as being clear enough for you to recognise them as as exactly akin to your own 'connectedness' experiences?

[avsp]

My third internal voice questions all the time and this is not my God voice and it did ruin it for me. T

I dont understand this.

Int dialogue = two voices (possibly the same voice talking to itself)
for me theres a third silent voice that basically sez 'decision time' but only occasionally

if God = the experience & the stilling/unification/silencing the first two voices then, for you what is the 3rd voice that questions all the time?, ..., that sounds like my 2 (1?) voiced prdainary internal dialogue

[edit]
its very likely that i'm going to have to end this discussion for today at anytime coz i'm posting from a libray & others may want the terminal, ..., & its logs one off after an hours use anyway
[/edit]

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by avsp

You judge my description of my 'odd' moments as being clear enough for you to recognise them as as exactly akin to your own 'connectedness' experiences?

Peak moments are something I have studied as I was very curious of my own experiences. It has been documented that they happen throughout history with every human population on earth. When you have one you know it is special. What you describe is a peak experience. The core of this experience is feeling connected to everything and everyone around. Everything is perfect and nothing but love is felt. You want the moment to last forever. Different things evoke these experiences for different people. Not everyone gets them but more than likely they can understand the feelings associated with it. One description I have heard for thes peak experiences is why so many folks are drawn to drugs. Some drugs inparticular give you this euphoria falsely and which is also why they are so addicting as people crave this experience and feeling more and more.

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by avsp

I dont understand this.

Int dialogue = two voices (possibly the same voice talking to itself)
for me theres a third silent voice that basically sez 'decision time' but only occasionally

if God = the experience & the stilling/unification/silencing the first two voices then, for you what is the 3rd voice that questions all the time?, ..., that sounds like my 2 (1?) voiced prdainary internal dialogue

Yes I have several voices not to sound crazy. One is predominantely arguing every thing that comes into my head. The what if's I call it or should have saif this, or done this, or argued this, or why did I say that, etc. blah blah blah. My usual mind stream.

Three voices is a little confusing and was a mistake. I mean one coming out of my mouth, one internal arguing voice, and the silent voice.

The silent voice I call it is God's voice. This voice speaks much less and only when I ask specific questions about my needs. This voice was the dominant one in my head during my experiences. The answers where always the one that had the most compassion and love in them if that makes sense. Never judged me, never judged others.

[avsp]

Originally Posted by Roonie

Peak moments are something I have studied as I was very curious of my own experiences. It has been documented that they happen throughout history with every human population on earth.

this is one of the things that makes me question if its 'real' & not some kind of 'brain glitch', ..., OTOH it also is evidence of the divine. but OTOOH its evidence that none of the various structures that claim to be 'the one & only truth' are in fact anything of the sort. To me they seem to want, like much else, to actually discourage such experiences.

One of the things i ilke about this rash of threads is how the believers seem to their choice of belief system as exactly that , ..., a choice, Further its a choice basically made because of the culture that they're in (&/or general life experiences)

Perhaps that why i've a non-religious semi-scientific, uncertain, undecided view of my 'odd moments' coz thats the culture I've grown up in? But then again maybe its so coz I'm 'holding back' as, I think, you imply & as I sometimes wonder?

When you have one you know it is special.

Check

What you describe is a peak experience.

It would seem our experiences are to a large extent qualitatively very similar

The core of this experience is feeling connected to everything and everyone around.

Check

Everything is perfect and nothing but love is felt.

Check-ish
The moment is perfect
Within it it is recognised that not 'everything is perfect' coz that is an inappropriate way of seeing things, (sort of), BUT (& this is the 'cold' bit), everything is as it should be, as it must be because of all that has been & will be coz its all part of one whole. There is an overwhelming feeling of 'is-ness'. (Strong anthropic principle?)

Nothing but awe is felt that* & a near tearfull longing for all to be perfect in the normal everyday sense of 'everything is perfect', (tho' perhaps this could be described as 'love')

You want the moment to last forever.

Check
Thinking about this beyond recognising the desire typically ends it

Different things evoke these experiences for different people. Not everyone gets them but more than likely they can understand the feelings associated with it. One description I have heard for thes peak experiences is why so many folks are drawn to drugs. Some drugs inparticular give you this euphoria falsely and which is also why they are so addicting as people crave this experience and feeling more and more.

Hullucingens can produce this 'deep profundidty' effect.
even tho' the experience may be false it can be very informative, ..., but not for me, but I know of an other who may feel their views on these subject has been informed, possibly in a 'compare & contrast' way, by this method

Cannabis & speed never have for done similar for me

*{insert 'cardinal biggles'/'comfy chair' comment here}

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by avsp

hullucingens can produce this 'deep profundidty' effect.
even tho trhe experience may be false it can be very informative, ..., but not for me

dope & speed never have for done similar for me

I have heard some in the spiritual know say that drug addicts are really just folks searching for God in their lives or some connectedness to something greater and drugs are the easy path. This is why the 12 step program works well. The second step after admitting alcohol has power over us is recognizing God in our lives.

[avsp]

Originally Posted by Roonie

Yes I have several voices not to sound crazy. One is predominantely arguing every thing that comes into my head. The what if's I call it or should have saif this, or done this, or argued this, or why did I say that, etc. blah blah blah. My usual mind stream.

Three voices is a little confusing and was a mistake. I mean one coming out of my mouth, one internal arguing voice, and the silent voice.

The silent voice I call it is God's voice. This voice speaks much less and only when I ask specific questions about my needs. This voice was the dominant one in my head during my experiences. The answers where always the one that had the most compassion and love in them if that makes sense. Never judged me, never judged others.

This clears my question up. Thanks

[avsp]

Originally Posted by Roonie

I have heard some in the spiritual know say that drug addicts are really just folks searching for God in their lives or some connectedness to something greater and drugs are the easy path.

I reckon most people are just having fun in the normal endless;y distracting way of evrything else

This is why the 12 step program works well. The second step after admitting alcohol has power over us is recognizing God in our lives.

I met ppl who've used the 12 step programe successfully, still dont believe in god have interesting views on this. But I doubt my ability to give accurate desciptions of their views

Right time is tight, my eyes are killing & I'm almost wtting myself in agogness as to what awaits without the library & I've duties to perform elsewhere etc

Thanks very much for the discussion. I feel I understand where you are coming from. only a vague niggle that you didnt comment on my 'perfectness' quibble. But I'm not going to worry overly etc

& I'm vastly amused at the notion of anybody else reading all this.

Thanks again.

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by avsp

Check-ish
The moment is perfect
Within it it is recognised that not 'everything is perfect' coz that is an inappropriate way of seeing things, (sort of), BUT (& this is the 'cold' bit), everything is as it should be, as it must be because of all that has been & will be coz its all part of one whole. There is an overwhelming feeling of 'is-ness'. (Strong anthropic principle?)

Nothing but awe is felt that* & a near tearfull longing for all to be perfect in the normal everyday sense of 'everything is perfect', (tho' perhaps this could be described as 'love')

I have realised at these moments that everything is perfect and how it should be. Without going into greater detail, this is the order of the Universe at that particular time in space and it is all working as it should and was meant to be. I know this opens a can of worms logically and I knew you would hit on this more and I was avoiding it purposefully. I can only follow up with saying knowing God is seeing perfection in the most unperfect of things.

Yeah I have sat hear laughing to myself if anyone else is actually engaged on this conversation.

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by avsp

You judge my description of my 'odd' moments as being clear enough for you to recognise them as as exactly akin to your own 'connectedness' experiences?

One more thing I can say about this. If your expecting the Hollywood version of spirituality then you might be disappointed. There are no big explosions, or fancy lighting effects, just simple awareness and connectedness as described above. After reading up on this as well I know these peak experiences get much more intense and take over every part of your body as you dive into them with intent. The mystics have written about this in detail and it is very interesting to read. My peak experiences were very powerful but that was also due to my emotional state and where I was in my life at that time. Whenever I have a peak experience now which are few and far between they are much more serene and simple.

[Dispatcher]

I am an atheist (though some on this forum would say I am agnostic).
My beliefs are kinda strange, I admit.
I have stopped believing in God, but not stopped believing in spirituality.
For a long time I struggled with this. It would seem to have one you have to have the other. Then I began to think maybe you don't have to have one in order for the other to exist. That maybe it's metaphysical or something.
I am an intelligent, logical thinker, yet I am also very compassionate (to a degree).
It is both my sense of logic and my sense of compassion that makes it hard for me to believe in a loving God that lets children starve, or die in war, or lets old people suffer for years in nursing homes.
Yet I do believe in near death experiences (though I never had one) and I believe in spirits (ghosts).
I have had only one "experience" that to this day I can not explain.
These are the circumstances:
I was in my late 30s, and my father had just died. I had been taking care of him for 15 years. I had sold my house and moved in with him and kinda put my life on hold (no dating) so I could focus on him. I was working full time though. I should add here that both my father and I suffered from depression. And that my mother had passed in 1978.
Anyway, after my father died, I was completely alone and I felt that my purpose for living had died with him. I went into a deep depression and became suicidal. Not in the "cry for help" sense, but in the "I'm gonna die anyway eventually...let's get this over with now" sense.
I didn't tell anyone what I was about to do.
As I held the loaded 38 special in my hand and pointed it to my head, I began to feel weightless....like I was floating. I then heard an inner voice that said "So that's it. You're just going to quit...even though you have never really tried."
I don't know if that was just my thinking or it was something spiritual, but I began to experiment with it. I asked the voice, "Are you God?"
At first there was nothing...just silence. And then the voice just said 2 words..."I am". But once again, I don't know if my conscious was saying that or some entity was.
I began to experiment further. I began to ask the voice questions....not questions that I knew the answers to, but questions I couldn't possibly know the answers to. Things like "why do I exist?", "Why is all this happening to me?", "What do I do now?", that kind of thing.
The answers I got blew me away, though I still wasn't sure just what this entity was or if it was my thoughts or if I was just going mad.
I don't remember all the answers (it happened 15 years ago), but I do remember one thing. The voice told me that Satan was trying to destroy me because I had goodness in my heart.
Obviously, I didn't kill myself.
The next day I sat down and wrote a list of all the problems in my life.
Column A was all the things I could change and column B was all the things I couldn't change (and would have to accept).

That was 15 years ago. It's been a mixed bag. Some things I changed and some things I didn't.
But long ago I stopped going to church; long ago I stopped hearing that voice. Long ago I stopped believing in God
But when things are very, very, still and quiet....I still begin to feel weightless.