War on Drugs: A danger to the public and police alike - Page 3

motivez · 08-01-2007, 06:53 PM

I think the percentage wouldn't be very high if the people sufficiently educated themselves on the potential negative side effects of the druid.

You can't find drugs just as easy as alcohol because you have to seek out shady people in order to get drugs most of the time because of the ridiculous prohibition.. the availability of the drug doesn't have speak to whether or not it should be legalized.

What's hypocritical to me is that the same conservatives that preach about this prohibition are the same ones who often want government out of other areas of their lives.. it's only when they get to interfere with the decisions of others that they decide the government intrusion is acceptable.

IE: This, gay marriage, and so forth.

jimeigh · 08-01-2007, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think the percentage wouldn't be very high if the people sufficiently educated themselves on the potential negative side effects of the druid.

make this post between WoW sessions?

What's hypocritical to me is that the same conservatives that preach about this prohibition are the same ones who often want government out of other areas of their lives.. it's only when they get to interfere with the decisions of others that they decide the government intrusion is acceptable.

IE: This, gay marriage, and so forth.

motivez · 08-01-2007, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by jimeigh

make this post between WoW sessions?

Holy shit, I didn't catch that

But yeah

Scrum · 08-01-2007, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

What's hypocritical to me is that the same conservatives that preach about this prohibition are the same ones who often want government out of other areas of their lives.. it's only when they get to interfere with the decisions of others that they decide the government intrusion is acceptable.

IE: This, gay marriage, and so forth.

You hit the nail on the head.

thomez · 08-02-2007, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

If drugs become more available, drug use will rise, that's common sense.

Really?

There are many dangerous things that are legal that I don't see everyone lining up to do, I'm not sure how hardcore drug use would be any different. Most people want nothing to do with it.

garbagemanlb · 08-02-2007, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

Really?

There are many dangerous things that are legal that I don't see everyone lining up to do, I'm not sure how hardcore drug use would be any different. Most people want nothing to do with it.

So you are saying that if heroin was readily available at the local drugstore/whatever, the usage levels would stay the same.

thomez · 08-02-2007, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

So you are saying that if heroin was readily available at the local drugstore/whatever, the usage levels would stay the same.

If you could buy it at the drug store, are you shooting up today?

Publius · 08-02-2007, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

So you are saying that if heroin was readily available at the local drugstore/whatever, the usage levels would stay the same.

so basically what you're saying is that you think so lowly of the American people that you truly believe the only thing keeping most of them from ruining themselves with drugs is by having Nanny Government tell them what they can and can't have?

If drugs were suddenly legal today and you could buy any drug at a corner store, I for one wouldn't even for a second have any desire to go to that store. Why? Because I know drugs can be destructive. I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of Americans that are not CURRENTLY drug users will remain so.

The only reason you'd see a jump in usage levels, imo, is because if it were legalized then people that are already doing it in secret will be able to be open and honest about it.

WickedLou9 · 08-02-2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Publius

so basically what you're saying is that you think so lowly of the American people that you truly believe the only thing keeping most of them from ruining themselves with drugs is by having Nanny Government tell them what they can and can't have?

If drugs were suddenly legal today and you could buy any drug at a corner store, I for one wouldn't even for a second have any desire to go to that store. Why? Because I know drugs can be destructive. I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of Americans that are not CURRENTLY drug users will remain so.

The only reason you'd see a jump in usage levels, imo, is because if it were legalized then people that are already doing it in secret will be able to be open and honest about it.

I don't even know about that much. Alcohol is accepted and legal and common, yet people with alcohol problems often hide it.
the only thing that would change would be that these drug addicts would no longer be criminals. They would be able to get help and re-assimilate back into society without the baggage of being a convicted criminal. Try getting a job and being required by law to disclose that you were a convicted criminal because you were a heroin user. What happens to that guy who can't shake his past and can't get a job? He goes back to heroin. Goes back to jail. and the cycle continues ad nauseam.

Roonie · 08-02-2007, 11:20 AM

I am not a fan of alcohol simply because it is widely accepted and a social drink. This is the only drug you can actually die from during withdrawal. No other drug can do this to someone. It also causes many more deaths when combined with driving. It is probably our most destructive drug out there due to availability and use.

Pot has none of these effects. No addiction, no death from withdrawal. It is a joke that the stuff is illegal!

garbagemanlb · 08-02-2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I don't even know about that much. Alcohol is accepted and legal and common, yet people with alcohol problems often hide it.
the only thing that would change would be that these drug addicts would no longer be criminals. They would be able to get help and re-assimilate back into society without the baggage of being a convicted criminal. Try getting a job and being required by law to disclose that you were a convicted criminal because you were a heroin user. What happens to that guy who can't shake his past and can't get a job? He goes back to heroin. Goes back to jail. and the cycle continues ad nauseam.

I agree, which is why I believe in rehabilitation over punishment such as jailtime or whatnot, and definately no record (as long as no real crime was committed other than using/posessing). There is definately a problem with the current drug laws.

As for increased useage if it was legalized, frankly, I think there would be a group of people who would try it if it was as easy as buying alcohol and there was no stigma attached. Do I think our streets would suddenly be flooded with addicts? No...but anything that will increase useage should not be allowed...we don't need more drug addicts just so we can feel more 'free' as a society.

I'm using heroin as an example, and that might not be the best...but what about drugs like E? How many more people would try that if it was legalized?

thomez · 08-02-2007, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

I'm using heroin as an example, and that might not be the best...but what about drugs like E? How many more people would try that if it was legalized?

I still do not understand why it being legal makes reasonable adults who have never used such a thing before just jump in line at the pharmacy to "give it a try". Also, if legalized, undoubtedly there would be way more information about the drugs than what you would know now, better drug education, etc. Now we pretty much say "drugs are bad mmmkay?" and people have little idea what is in the drugs or what they do to your body. A more informed and free society with the ability to buy a bottle of E from a pharmacy is much better than the current system, in my opinion. Now you go the club and some stranger can sell you some unsanitary fake deadly concoction, if legal you could buy E with a fucking warning label and dosage instructions for crying out loud, knowing what was in it, etc.

Kytro · 08-02-2007, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

As for increased useage if it was legalized, frankly, I think there would be a group of people who would try it if it was as easy as buying alcohol and there was no stigma attached.

There is no reeal evidence to back this up. Would you try it if it were legal? I also doubt the reduction of stigma.

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

Do I think our streets would suddenly be flooded with addicts? No...but anything that will increase useage should not be allowed...we don't need more drug addicts just so we can feel more 'free' as a society.

We also don't need laws that fail to work. Drug useage is not reduced by tough drug laws. Nations that have stonger drug law do not have lower per-capita usage.

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

I'm using heroin as an example, and that might not be the best...but what about drugs like E? How many more people would try that if it was legalized?

That drug was used in therapy until someone died from a mixed version of it they were taking in recreation.

The problem with drugs is abuse and misuse, not recreation. The idea of banning drugs because ther are some addicts is akin to banning unhealth foods because some people eat too much

Roonie · 08-02-2007, 06:40 PM

This reminds me of a place I visited where all drugs were legal. I went into the park and I was actually a little fearful for my safety and even walking by the park was sketchy. My brother lived in Zurich for a summer and I visited him on several occassions. His place was several blocks from this park and crime was at an all time high directly around this area. The idea was good but it was a total disaster. For those of you wondering what I am talkin about here is a definition found on the web.

In the 1990s, Zurich experimented with what became known as Needle Park where addicts could openly purchase drugs and inject heroin without police intervention. Zurich became the mecca for drug addicts across Europe, who would travel to Needle Park. In 1992, when authorities decided to close Needle Park, the addicts moved to Letten railroad station until its closure in 1995. Based on the failure of Needle Park and the Letten railroad station experiments, the Swiss government, like other governments in Europe, developed consumption rooms to provide a "clean and safe" environment for addicts to inject heroin under medical supervision.

Kytro · 08-02-2007, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Roonie

This reminds me of a place I visited where all drugs were legal. I went into the park and I was actually a little fearful for my safety and even walking by the park was sketchy. My brother lived in Zurich for a summer and I visited him on several occassions. His place was several blocks from this park and crime was at an all time high directly around this area. The idea was good but it was a total disaster. For those of you wondering what I am talkin about here is a definition found on the web.

Bad implementation - the drug was still illegal, and the treatment isolated