Deja Vu All Over Again: US Continues To Lose Arms In Iraq

[thatguyoverthere]

I remember this well from last year. Apparently, the US continues to lose arms in Iraq.

US 'loses' 190,000 weapons in Iraq | NEWS.com.au

Originally Posted by link

US 'loses' 190,000 weapons in Iraq

From correspondents in Baghdad
August 01, 2007 10:49pm

Article from: Agence France-Presse
Font size: + -
Send this article: Print Email

THE US Government cannot account for 190,000 weapons issued to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, says the Government Accountability Office.

According to its July 31 report, the military “cannot fully account for about 110,000 AK-47 assault rifles, 80,000 pistols, 135,000 items of body armour and 115,000 helmets reported as issued to Iraqi forces”.
The weapons disappeared from records between June 2004 and September 2005, as the military struggled to rebuild the disbanded Iraqi forces from scratch amid increasing attacks from Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias.
Since 2004 the military “has not consistently collected supporting records confirming the dates the equipment was received, the quantities of equipment delivered, or the Iraqi units receiving the items,” the report said.
“Since 2006 the command has placed greater emphasis on collecting the supporting documents. However, GAO's review of the January 2007 property books found continuing problems with missing and incomplete records.”
US commanders often accuse foreign powers such as Iran of supplying arms to illegal militias fighting in Iraq, but the report shows they cannot fully account for the hundreds thousands of weapons they brought in themselves.
Last month, Turkey raised concerns over reports that separatist Kurdish guerrillas launching cross-border raids from northern Iraq had received US-supplied guns supposedly destined for Iraqi security forces.
Brigadier General Kevin Bergner, spokesman for the US-led military in Iraq, said the Americans were working hard with their Iraqi partners to improve accountability and increase the security of weapons.
“We are working very hard with the Government of Iraq and Iraqi security forces at every level to increase the accountability and to increase the security of the weapons that are provided to the Iraqi forces,” he said.
The US has spent $US19.2 billion (22.61 billion) on Iraq's security forces since the 2003 invasion to oust Saddam Hussein, with $US2.8 billion ($3.3 billion) devoted to equipping them.
The report comes as US President George W. Bush is under intense pressure from a Democrat-led Congress and critics within his own Republican party to show progress on Iraq, with many in both parties calling for withdrawal.
But the ability of Iraqi forces to stabilise the country in the wake of a US troop drawdown has been called into question, most recently by a mid-July progress report issued by the White House.
Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's government “has made unsatisfactory progress toward increasing the number of Iraqi security forces units capable of operating independently,” that report said.
The report also found “no momentum in the Government of Iraq toward developing and implementing a comprehensive disarmament program for militia members” from Iraq's divided communities.
Four years after the 2003 US-led invasion the country is beset by several overlapping conflicts, and Iraqi security forces, particularly the police, are widely believed to be infiltrated by rival militias.

Abstract

I'm sorry, I can't really even describe how angry this makes me.

All of you people who don't want your tax dollars taken to pay for someone else's health care should just buck the fuck up and accept that sometimes your tax dollars get used in ways that you don't like.

See, for me, I don't like my tax dollars taken to buy arms that kill civilians.

I especially don't like my tax dollars taken to buy arms that kill American and Allied troops.

If we don't care enough to keep track of weapons sent to Iraq, we don't care enough to do the job, we don't care about civilian lives, we don't care about the lives of the troops of our allies, and we certainly don't care about the lives and well being of our own troops.

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

[Joe_Cool]

From the very first sentence in your article,

THE US Government cannot account for 190,000 weapons issued to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, says the Government Accountability Office.

It would seem Iraqi security forces lost them. Not the US.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

From the very first sentence in your article,



It would seem Iraqi security forces lost them. Not the US.

I'm sure that factoid will be a great relief to the families of solders who those weapons kill.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Scrum

I'm sure that factoid will be a great relief to the families of solders who those weapons kill.

The weapons aren't killing anybody, the people holding them are. And the point of the thread is obviously to try to make US forces look like bumbling idiots who just misplaced 200,000 guns, which is not the case. They were issued to Iraqi security forces, and what happened to them after that is the fault of Iraqi security forces, not the US.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

The weapons aren't killing anybody, the people holding them are. And the point of the thread is obviously to try to make US forces look like bumbling idiots who just misplaced 200,000 guns, which is not the case. They were issued to Iraqi security forces, and what happened to them after that is the fault of Iraqi security forces, not the US.

Uh...whoever handed them out...handed them out to the wrong people...its OUR occupation...WE handed out the weapons

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Uh...whoever handed them out...handed them out to the wrong people...its OUR occupation...WE handed out the weapons

And yet we aren't the ones who lost them.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

......And the point of the thread is obviously to try to make US forces look like bumbling idiots who just misplaced 200,000 guns, which is not the case...

The US in not bumbling idiots, collectively we are smart. good people, but individually we got some fucking idiots and sometimes those fucking idiots become our leaders - as you plainly know many leaders get elected not because they are the most qualified, its because of a name, or money or because that's a guy I would like to have a beer with - and they dictate bad policy that makes us look bad.

We should definitely defend our country, but not excuse the behavior and stupidity of some fucking idiots or else they will continue to make us look bad and who knows what consequences their actions could bring

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

The US in not bumbling idiots, collectively we are smart. good people, but individually we got some fucking idiots and sometimes those fucking idiots become our leaders - as you plainly know many leaders get elected not because they are the most qualified, its because of a name, or money or because that's a guy I would like to have a beer with - and they dictate bad policy that makes us look bad.

We should definitely defend our country, but not excuse the behavior and stupidity of some fucking idiots or else they will continue to make us look bad and who knows what consequences their actions could bring

Nice speech, but we still didn't lose anything.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Nice speech, but we still didn't lose anything.

I am not talking about the article - I didnt even read the damn thing - I am talking about your specific comment, it reminds me of all the neo-cons who say liberals "blame america first", ummm maybe a few do yes and they should not be taken seriously but many genuinely love this country and such a comment is unfair and disenguous and it hides a very real problem of incompetent and corrupt leadership (both dems and reps) in this nation.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

I am not talking about the article - I didnt even read the damn thing - I am talking about your specific comment, it reminds me of all the neo-cons who say liberals "blame america first", ummm maybe a few do yes and they should not be taken seriously but many genuinely love this country and such a comment is unfair and disenguous and it hides a very real problem of incompetent and corrupt leadership (both dems and reps) in this nation.

Maybe you should look at the thread title, then look at the article. The threadstarter was intentionally trying to paint US forces in Iraq in a bad light and make them look like idiots, when the facts in the article he quoted do not support him.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Maybe you should look at the thread title, then look at the article. The threadstarter was intentionally trying to paint US forces in Iraq in a bad light and make them look like idiots, when the facts in the article he quoted do not support him.

Joining the a branch of the US Armed forces immediately gives a +30 to intelligence, its only civilians who are idiots

Who said ANYONE "lost" the weapons

We STUPIDLY and like IDIOTS gave weapons to shady characters because the military thinks if we throw enough money at Iraq itll turn into paradise...and then those shady characters sell them to insurgents, or are insurgents themselves, and kill Americans


Remember in Karbala, Shia forces came in wearing AMERICAN uniforms and killed several Americans...what you think we are giving AMERICAN uniforms to Iraqis and they lost them?

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Maybe you should look at the thread title, then look at the article. The threadstarter was intentionally trying to paint US forces in Iraq in a bad light and make them look like idiots, when the facts in the article he quoted do not support him.

Originally Posted by original article

Since 2004 the military “has not consistently collected supporting records confirming the dates the equipment was received, the quantities of equipment delivered, or the Iraqi units receiving the items,” the report said.
“Since 2006 the command has placed greater emphasis on collecting the supporting documents. However, GAO's review of the January 2007 property books found continuing problems with missing and incomplete records.”
US commanders often accuse foreign powers such as Iran of supplying arms to illegal militias fighting in Iraq, but the report shows they cannot fully account for the hundreds thousands of weapons they brought in themselves.

We were providing the arms. We didn't collect the records. It is our responsibility, our duty, to collect the records.

We do not know:
1. the dates that we gave the arms
2. how many arms we gave them
3. which units received the arms

And somehow you think this is not our fault?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by thatguyoverthere

We were providing the arms. We didn't collect the records. It is our responsibility, our duty, to collect the records.

We do not know:
1. the dates that we gave the arms
2. how many arms we gave them
3. which units received the arms

And somehow you think this is not our fault?

It is completely our fault. We're supposed to be in charge over there.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Who said ANYONE "lost" the weapons

The fucking thread title.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

It is completely our fault. We're supposed to be in charge over there.

Wait, I thought you wanted us to turn over control to the government of Iraq and get out. WTF? Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

The fucking thread title.

Said the US lost weapons, which is true in that the US government funding the Iraqi government has no idea where the weapons are (call up your local rep or senator and ask where the weapons are) but on the local scale, they all were shipped to exactly who we wanted them to...it just happens we have idiots in iraq (there are civilians before you military people whine) and they dont know what they're doing

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Wait, I thought you wanted us to turn over control to the government of Iraq and get out. WTF? Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways.

You can't turn the keys over to your 16 year old until they are ready to drive. These people aren't even walking yet. It's IRRESPONSIBLE to give them control of anything that could come back to haunt us SINCE WE'RE DECIDING TO STAY THERE.

[thatguyoverthere]

When a country gives munitions, it is the responsibility of that country to keep track of:

1. Who they were given to
2. How many were given
3. When they were given

When you cannot answer those three questions, IMHO you qualify as having 'lost' something.

The misdeed is compounded when the items that were lost can cause the death of civilians as well as American and Allied troops.

You can't blame the lost of munitions on the Iraqi units if you cannot name the units to who you gave them.

That this information was not properly and consistently collected is no one's fault but the USA's. You cannot blame our failure to keep these records on anyone but ourselves.

[Rouger2]

It is our fault but what does this say about our allies. I just hope those weapons are not in Iran. I am sure though that the Kurds have some of them in use in their rebellion in Turkey.