Antiwar members of Congress talk about progress in Iraq

[kinggovernor]

Muslim Lawmaker Hears From Iraq Sheiks

By FREDERIC J. FROMMER
The Associated Press
Monday, July 30, 2007; 12:33 PM



WASHINGTON -- Rep. Keith Ellison, Congress' only Muslim, made a weekend trip to Iraq, where a pair of sheiks urged him to help counter al-Qaida's vision of Islam.

Ellison, D-Minn., said he met in Ramadi with the two sheiks, who oversee several hundred thousand congregants.

"They were very upset and concerned that al-Qaida is misrepresenting Islam," Ellison told reporters Monday during a conference call from Germany on his way back to the U.S. "And they were talking to me about what I can possibly do to work with them to give a clearer, more accurate picture of what Islam is all about."

Ellison, a vocal critic of the Iraq war, was part of a delegation of six freshman House members, three Democrats and three Republicans, who visited Baghdad and Ramadi.

Leading the delegation was Rep. Jerry McNerney, D-Calif., who said he saw signs of progress in Ramadi in Anbar province and was impressed by Gen. David Petraeus, President Bush's top military commander in Iraq, who argued in favor of giving Bush's troop surge strategy time to work.

McNerney said he still favors a timeline to get troops out of Iraq _ something House leaders may bring to the floor again this week as part of a defense spending bill _ but is open to being flexible "in terms of when it might end."

I certainlly don't think you can call these guys "war cheerleaders" but another example of people seeing progress in Al Anbar province

[Thorgrim]

You of all people should know better...you really agree with the strategy of arming insurgents that attacked Marines...if you do any google search you can find 1920s group we are arming showing off pictures of them killing marines

"They will clear the neighborhood of anyone who belongs to al-Qaeda or JAM [a Shiite militia] or even carries a bullet," the man said. "We want you, sir, to give us the green light. They are ready."

More than one influential Sunni in Rasheed indicated they had ambitions beyond securing their immediate neighborhood. "Our first priority is to go after al-Qaeda. Then we can support the Americans in fighting Jaish al-Mahdi," said one Sunni leader, referring to the Shiite militia that operates in the district. The Sunni leaders at the meeting requested anonymity for fear they would be targeted.

WP: U.S. arms Iraqi residents - Washington Post - MSNBC.com

They're just killing Al Qaeda because they want their blackmarket money and power, it's only a short term gain for a long term loss...we are arming people that are determined to go after the largest Shia militia force and have a shadowy civil war turn into an all out-genocide campaign

I can't believe the US military is so stupid to hear all these Sunnis talking about killing Shias while handing them guns and ammo and helping them consolidate power and regroup after years of fighting the US...Maliki has threatened Petreaus over this multiple times and if we keep up these reckless gambles the majority of Iraq will get aid from Iran and the whole country will end up being a terrorist sister state of Iran

Utter foolishness

[DosEquis]

Joe Biden's plan is the only viable plan on the table today. Period. It allows us to leave without losing even more respect. Hes been saying it for 2 years. It needed to be done then. We could have saved a lot of lives.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I certainlly don't think you can call these guys "war cheerleaders" but another example of people seeing progress in Al Anbar province

There have been a lot of liberals coming out of the woodwork saying the same thing. Especially from the people who have actually bothered to go over there recently and compare to how it was before. The nutroots/netroots don't want to believe there is any progress and they'll likely attempt to play down any liberal responses like this, but it is becoming more and more the reality as of late.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

There have been a lot of liberals coming out of the woodwork saying the same thing. Especially from the people who have actually bothered to go over there recently and compare to how it was before. The nutroots/netroots don't want to believe there is any progress and they'll likely attempt to play down any liberal responses like this, but it is becoming more and more the reality as of late.

McNerney is a 6 month congressman from a district that was specifically designed in a gerrymandering deal to be Republican...one of the most GOP districts in the country

He points out the pony show obvious, Ramadi is no longer so unsafe to US forces that they can't poke their heads out without getting shot...as I said 100x before, short term progress, and his GOP district wants to hear that he isn't a total dove on Iraq

The "liberal" aka warcheerleaders give one quasi-positive report after the guided tour from the US military command serving Bush


People here need to make their stands on the issue, rather than put up vague statements that they can weasel out of later, where were these flurry of posts that the surge was working in February, March, etc when the Sunni tribes had firmly turned on Al Qaeda...claiming the surge had been a success?

Please, claim the lessening of murders in Baghdad, the retreating of Al Qaeda from Anbar, the recent alliance with former insurgents, etc etc....claim that this is the Saratoga of the Iraq Occupation...back up your words and statements and stop fumbling around


I for one, see the dead set hatred among Sunni tribal groups and Shia militias, as well as the indepedence of the Kurds...the war is lost and is another Vietnam

I'm not afraid to make clear statements and stand by them, will anyone else stop being a coward and actually take a stand?

[Publius]

have you ever thought, Thorgrim, that maybe some of the other people that post about Iraq daily don't have this magical crystal ball that lets you see the future oh so clearly? "Taking a stand" isn't always a virtue, Bush is "taking a stand" on trying to keep us in Iraq.

I personally think we have failed there and need to pull our troops out as soon as possible. Let the Iraqis fend for themselves at this point, they've had plenty of time to build a defense force by this point if they were serious about doing it.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

have you ever thought, Thorgrim, that maybe some of the other people that post about Iraq daily don't have this magical crystal ball that lets you see the future oh so clearly? "Taking a stand" isn't always a virtue, Bush is "taking a stand" on trying to keep us in Iraq.

I personally think we have failed there and need to pull our troops out as soon as possible. Let the Iraqis fend for themselves at this point, they've had plenty of time to build a defense force by this point if they were serious about doing it.

It's been over 4 years, and no one is asking for anyone to attend a rally, or vote a certain way

Just post concrete thoughts and not vagueness

Your point would be good if I were saying "if you think the war is going to fail, go out and join cindy sheehan...if you think its going to work, enlist and in your spare time go campaign for McCain"

No, I'm saying people should post clearly, like I did...im not going to any rallies, or starting any movements...if you're ignorant on Iraq and haven't been following it, then just don't post I guess, or say "I don't really follow Iraq"

[RMNIXON]

Clyburn: Positive Report by Petraeus Could Split House Democrats on War




By Dan Balz and Chris Cillizza
Washington Post Staff Writer and Washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Monday, July 30, 2007; 6:26 PM


House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Monday that a strongly positive report on progress on Iraq by Army Gen. David Petraeus likely would split Democrats in the House and impede his party's efforts to press for a timetable to end the war.

Clyburn, in an interview with the washingtonpost.com video program PostTalk, said Democrats might be wise to wait for the Petraeus report, scheduled to be delivered in September, before charting next steps in their year-long struggle with President Bush over the direction of U.S. strategy.

Play Video
VIDEO</SPAN> | Rep. James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.) spoke with washingtonpost.com's Chris Cillizza and The Post's Dan Balz about the 2008 presidential race, the Congressional debate on Iraq, and Congressional approval.


Clyburn noted that Petraeus carries significant weight among the 47 members of the Blue Dog caucus in the House, a group of moderate to conservative Democrats. Without their support, he said, Democratic leaders would find it virtually impossible to pass legislation setting a timetable for withdrawal.

"I think there would be enough support in that group to want to stay the course and if the Republicans were to stay united as they have been, then it would be a problem for us," Clyburn said. "We, by and large, would be wise to wait on the report."



washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines


Do they have a "Problem" indeed?

[motivez]

Considering the major Sunni bloc left the coalition government in Iraq today, I somehow doubt it.

This is a huge setback.. and it's the Sunni's we've been arming.

[garbagemanlb]

I just think it is sad that we are forced to question whether political motives influenced the findings of a report. If there is legitimate progress in Iraq, then good. I just hope the report isn't fluff and is honest.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

I just think it is sad that we are forced to question whether political motives influenced the findings of a report. If there is legitimate progress in Iraq, then good. I just hope the report isn't fluff and is honest.

finally a post in this thread that relates to orginal post

He still wants out of Iraq, so I don't see what could be gained politically by talking about progress in Iraq?

And ultimately isn't that what both sides want? I don't see why antiwar people get so upset when they hear about progress in Iraq, they act like its a bad thing. Aren't we all chasing the same goal?

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

finally a post in this thread that relates to orginal post

He still wants out of Iraq, so I don't see what could be gained politically by talking about progress in Iraq?

And ultimately isn't that what both sides want? I don't see why antiwar people get so upset when they hear about progress in Iraq, they act like its a bad thing. Aren't we all chasing the same goal?

The goal is the Iraqi's taking over and us bringing our troops home.

Nothing I have seen shows we are getting closer to the goal. The only progress is that 10 less people died this month or that month, followed by a spike in deaths the following months. This has been going on for years.

They are still having basic service problems with water and electricity in Baghdad and the Sunni's keep leaving the government. Oh yeah, we are arming groups that have killed US soldiers so they can fight al quaeda. Brilliant plan. Ideas like that have always worked out well for us in the past.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Scrum

The goal is the Iraqi's taking over and us bringing our troops home.

Nothing I have seen shows we are getting closer to the goal. The only progress is that 10 less people died this month or that month, followed by a spike in deaths the following months. This has been going on for years.

They are still having basic service problems with water and electricity in Baghdad and the Sunni's keep leaving the government. Oh yeah, we are arming groups that have killed US soldiers so they can fight al quaeda. Brilliant plan. Ideas like that have always worked out well for us in the past.

I posted plenty of examples of Iraqi's taking control, but you gloss over them and only look at the negatives.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I posted plenty of examples of Iraqi's taking control, but you gloss over them and only look at the negatives.

If the Iraqi's are taking over, why aren't our troops coming home?

[Thorgrim]

Also, there seems to be a sense from reporters and their sources in Iraq that many al-qaeda fighters are returning to their old tribe and signing up, or in extreme situations, an entire tribe is allied with al qaeda but they "claim" to be new allies of the US, all because al qaeda is licking its wounds and doesn't want to start a fight with all the Sunnis

All in all, I haven't met ONE insurgent group besides al qaeda that we haven't offered money/arms/alliances with...you really trust these guys? Well our military does

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Also, there seems to be a sense from reporters and their sources in Iraq that many al-qaeda fighters are returning to their old tribe and signing up, or in extreme situations, an entire tribe is allied with al qaeda but they "claim" to be new allies of the US, all because al qaeda is licking its wounds and doesn't want to start a fight with all the Sunnis

All in all, I haven't met ONE insurgent group besides al qaeda that we haven't offered money/arms/alliances with...you really trust these guys? Well our military does

how many insurgent groups have you met?

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Scrum

If the Iraqi's are taking over, why aren't our troops coming home?

all in due time

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

how many insurgent groups have you met?

I wasn't aware we aren't allowed to use reporters and their sources as OUR sources. I'll remember your whole "you must have firsthand accountage" next time you try to speak out against the economy or abortion or something.

[Thorgrim]

certainly as many as you've spoken without a translator to...and ive spoken to probably the same amount of insurgent leaders that you have