Originally Posted by motivez He said he prematurely called the vote closed while votes were still being entered, do you have any proof that that this isn't the case? Do you have any proof that he isn't just spinning a screwjob?...
08-03-2007, 02:52 PM
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| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian  Libertarian Party DFW 
| Originally Posted by motivez Do you have any proof that he isn't just spinning a screwjob? 
__________________ “The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased.” --Alexander Hamilton--  | ||||
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08-03-2007, 03:19 PM
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| Dirty Liberal  Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by Publius That would be better for democracy yes. However with a national election it's simply not feasable. With congress you are only talking about a few hundred people all located in one place. I see no reason not to.
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08-03-2007, 03:38 PM
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| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator  Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by Publius We aren't talking about the next day. They were still in session.
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08-03-2007, 04:07 PM
| #24 | ||||
| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by Scrum But the vote had been closed. Change the scenario: polls close at 7pm, somehow magically everyone knows at 7:15 that candidate X, the candidate you wanted to win, is going to lose by one vote. Should you and your spouse be allowed to go back up to the polls at 7:20 and vote for candidate X so that they can win?
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08-03-2007, 04:12 PM
| #25 | ||||
| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 What you're suggesting is basically an extremely abusable proposition. The chair would pretty much have the ability to hold the same vote over and over again until they got the result they want.
I'm not saying the way it is now is perfect, it's far from it. The only logical system that is hard to abuse is to have one vote, advertised at least a week prior so that any members of Congress have ample opportunity to arrange their schedules so they can be there, and have a set close point that cannot be breached. In other words, they should be treated the same way as we treat national elections to office. Give me a calendar and I could tell you exactly what day of the week the Presidential Election of 2060 will be held (under current Constitutional rules). | ||||
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08-03-2007, 04:14 PM
| #26 | ||||
| Political Genius  Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Rep Roy Blunt Kicking Ass: YouTube - Republican Whip Blunt Addresses the House Floor  Look how they cry when they are in charge........................... 
__________________ Sock It To Me! "Bureaucracy is a Parasite that Preys on Free Thought and Suffocates Free Spirit!" - Douglas Adams | ||||
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08-03-2007, 04:18 PM
| #27 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by Publius Not really a good comparison since the voting is called to an end by a person who decides to, not a specific time.
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08-03-2007, 04:19 PM
| #28 | ||||
| Political Genius Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by motivez
Granted Liberal Dems have a reputation of being "premature."  | ||||
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08-03-2007, 04:20 PM
| #29 | ||||
| Political Genius Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by Scrum
Take a look at my clip....................................  | ||||
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08-03-2007, 05:52 PM
| #30 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist North Carolina
| Originally Posted by Publius I'm not the one making accusations, why would I?
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08-03-2007, 06:38 PM
| #31 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist North Carolina
| Originally Posted by Publius However, if what this man said actually happened..
A better analogy would be this scenario: The polls close at 7pm, you've been waiting to cast your vote, and before you're able to cast your vote, they decide to close the polls prematurely while people are still voting and waiting to vote. And as far as your scenario, as long as everyone was allowed the same opportunity to vote, what's the problem with letting everyone vote? | ||||
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08-03-2007, 06:53 PM
| #32 | ||||
| Yeah, that guy.  Progressive Oregon
| Originally Posted by motivez Exactly. The GOP is just pussyhurt that the votes didn't sway their way.
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08-03-2007, 07:26 PM
| #33 | ||||
| Political Genius Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by motivez
Did you bother to look at the clip link I posted?  | ||||
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08-04-2007, 01:39 PM
| #34 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur.  Reform Party NJ
| CQ has the full updated story. CQ Today - House Approves Probe of Contested Vote in Bid to Restore Civility Basically here's what happened. The vote was coming to a close and was looking dead even at 214-214 so two Democrats ran down to change their votes to side with the rest of their constituents to make sure the Democrats would win. Three Florida Republicans saw this and ran down to change or add in their votes to ensure the vote would pass. McNulty was looking at the electronic board which hadn't counted the third republican vote yet and announced the vote closed at 214-214 rather than the actual vote of 213-215. As he was dropping his gavel the board updated, but he announced the wrong numbers. The Republicans had won. All the votes were in and counted before he closed the vote, but he read the old numbers. After minutes of figuring out how to screw the Republicans the Republicans walked out in protest. They held a new vote which the few Republicans still in chambers voted present for and the new vote passed. Essentially the Democrats saw they actually lost (when they thought they won) and decided a do-over because McNulty read the wrong numbers off the at the time non-updated board rather than the numbers he received from the clerk. The Democrats, McNulty in particular, have apologized for what happened, but they refuse to allow the original vote to count. The kicker of all this is that the Democrats are doing all of this to ensure that the tax payers will subsidize housing for illegal immigrants. Most articles in the media, namely the NY Times are not telling the full story. They're painting the Republicans to be in the wrong and quoting Nancy Pelosi taking cheapshots at them. They don't even mention why the Republicans wanted to send it back to committee or what they were fighting for. Wonderful reporting by the NY Times as usual. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/04/wa...Rh4OjiF/jAGHDw Last edited by JaJae; 08-04-2007 at 01:52 PM. | ||||
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08-04-2007, 04:13 PM
| #35 | ||||
| Political Genius Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by garbagemanlb
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08-04-2007, 05:21 PM
| #36 | ||||
| Banned  Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| You want to know the nuts and bolts of what happened, is that the GOP has been using every dirty trick to "recommit" and block bills even in the house, using measures just to take up time, etc It was a quick confusing vote and the Dems screwed up gaveling (the electronic ticker is an aid, not a judge) You want a screwed up vote, look at the medicare vote, where DeLay kept open the vote for HOURS which had basically never been done, and then went around bribing members for votes...thats corrupt What we have here is some people controlling the gavel were temporarily incompetent, and screwed up on a tie...i bet some democrats thought it was an honest mistakes, others thought they were just trying to stop what they saw as an oncoming car wreck and too late realized and then tried to backup, smacking their foreheads how they messed up the vote because people were changing votes back and forth (on their own) So after the clusterfuck, the democrats could have went "well part of our membership thinks what was on the electric board should stand but others didn't think the vote was proper, etc" and just quit, and had a lot of members yelling at their leadership that their votes weren't counted because they were idiots...I guess the GOP wins by mistake? I mean is that real democracy? Anyway, the Democrats got together, STATED they were going to have another vote, and the GOP left in protest...that's just silly, but whatever So the NEW vote comes, and guess what, without hours of bribing or what have you, 236 yes votes...even if the GOP had stayed THERE IS NO WAY THEY COULD HAVE WON THE VOTE After a clusterfuck, which is the Democrats fault, 236 reps wanted this passed into law, thats well over half I have no BIG problem with this, but I see the concerns after all the dirty tricks DeLay pulled...this isn't a dirty trick so much as a quick fuckup they quickly tried to repair or in some cases really believe the rules were on their side | ||||
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08-04-2007, 05:23 PM
| #37 | ||||
| Better Dead than Red  Democrat Where America Goes to Talk
| Originally Posted by RMNIXON  how is that a response to anything?you've clearly got nothing to hold on to | ||||
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08-04-2007, 05:24 PM
| #38 | ||||
| Better Dead than Red Democrat Where America Goes to Talk
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim does not compute, does not compute... overload
 i remember that one well... not surprising who forgot all about it | ||||
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08-04-2007, 06:05 PM
| #39 | ||||
| Yeah, that guy. Progressive Oregon
| Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM He has no better response.
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08-04-2007, 06:24 PM
| #40 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim Wanting to remove provisions that spend taxpayer money on illegal immigration welfare is a dirty trick? I think if the media were reporting on the true matter of the issue here most of America would side with the Republicans on this one. The only dirty trick I see in this instance is the ignoring of the actual votes within the House and holding new votes after the Republicans walk out in protest.
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