Senate Passes Expanded Warrantless Search Bill

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

So you're all about buying votes and misleading the american people into thinking the party is far less progressive than it is? Then once they get power they'll cram their version of the same bullshit down our throats

Time for the house and senate both republican and democrat to grow up. Do what is right quit this buying votes crap. The democrats were elected primarily on the basis of change in Iraq. So far nothing...they also talked a big talk when it came to the patriot act and the domestic spying programs...what do we have gotten on that front thats new? Nothing...

Not "buying votes" but "dealing with reality"

If the Democrats pass a bill and Bush goes "they've been briefed in secret about threats to our national security and this bill doesn't cover it, i have to veto it because it won't protect the american people"

The democrats can't go explain top secret information, they can't fight Bush on TV saying he needs it because its a vital tool against terrorism

There WERE some problems with international calls being routed though the US to another international location, so it was Canada to Mexico...which obviously the non-american citizens there have no american rights

Bush said "all of this bill or none of it" and so the Democrats not only had to face Bush and the GOP saying they were giving into terrorist-sympathizing, but they were actually leaving the country in a weak position

Once we have a democratic person, we'll have someone reasonable in the white house who would work out a decent bill, there would be no "all of it or none of it" their would be great work done to make bills that protect the american people...but i don't know when you forgot the Democrats only have 49 votes in the Senate (Lieberman votes GOP and Johnson is recovering) and a slim 15 seat majority in the House...they certainly have nothing close to over-ride a veto

[Thorgrim]

Here are the realities:


Despite the amount of false propaganda spread by the Republican Party, our nation does in fact have dangerous enemies. The terrorist threat is very real, though it is also very different from the way the Republicans, and in particular the administration of George W. Bush, have described it.
FISA has needed an overhaul for many years now. Be thankful that it will be Democrats that will rewrite this bill instead of the Republicans. If Republicans rewrote this bill most Americans would end up being implanted with microchips to monitor their private thoughts.
FISA is broken and the George W. Bush broke it. Because Bush and his cronies pushed the exisiting law too far, they ended up losing a court case and severely damaged our ability to obtain intelligence. This was the result of sloppiness and a total disregard for the rule of law on the part of the Republicans.
It will take time to rewrite FISA, and in the meantime we needed some kind of temporary legislation to buy time for Congress to work on a new version of FISA. The bills Jim Webb voted for provide for this temporary bridge.
We may need another temporary extension of FISA, lasting until the end of the Bush administration. When this law is rewritten it needs to be rewritten by Democratic-dominated Congress and signed off on by a Democratic President. Any rewrite of this law under the current administration would bear the unholy fingerprints of Bush, Cheney and Gonzales--and in consequence would be deeply flawed from its outset.

Daily Kos: Webb's FISA vote was necessary and proper

[motivez]

Webb was wrong, they simply could have not passed this bill and waited to reform FISA until '08 or later. No bullshit excuse for why it was "needed" will suffice.

Jim Webb is a coward for voting for this legislation, and so are the other 50ish Democrats who decided it was better to fuck over the American people than risk being called unpatriotic by this Administration.

The existing FISA statutes were more than sufficient to gather timely intelligence.. retroactive warrants, and so forth, allowed intelligence gatherers plenty of flexibility to protect our nation while still demanding that oversight and protection of privacy for American citizens.

It's pathetic that the Democrats allowed this raping of our rights to take place under their watch.. and no amount of apologist bullshit or sad excuses will change that fact.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

So you're all about buying votes and misleading the american people into thinking the party is far less progressive than it is? Then once they get power they'll cram their version of the same bullshit down our throats

Time for the house and senate both republican and democrat to grow up. Do what is right quit this buying votes crap. The democrats were elected primarily on the basis of change in Iraq. So far nothing...they also talked a big talk when it came to the patriot act and the domestic spying programs...what do we have gotten on that front thats new? Nothing...

What the Democrats really fear at the moment is another 1994 election in the Congress. It is easy to look tough on security when you are not in charge of it. Complaining does not take much effort at all.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

Webb was wrong, they simply could have not passed this bill and waited to reform FISA until '08 or later. No bullshit excuse for why it was "needed" will suffice.

Jim Webb is a coward for voting for this legislation, and so are the other 50ish Democrats who decided it was better to fuck over the American people than risk being called unpatriotic by this Administration.

The existing FISA statutes were more than sufficient to gather timely intelligence.. retroactive warrants, and so forth, allowed intelligence gatherers plenty of flexibility to protect our nation while still demanding that oversight and protection of privacy for American citizens.

It's pathetic that the Democrats allowed this raping of our rights to take place under their watch.. and no amount of apologist bullshit or sad excuses will change that fact.

Well, now you know how the other side feels about this emergency to make illegals citizens in this country. If you don't think your representaives are responding to the voters you better give em a wake up call!

[goldenponderbob]

By my count it's sixteen democrats. Fortythree republicans plus "Independent Joe". I've been looking for the list, probably as good at that as I am at math.

I assume temporary means it sunsets automatically without having to be
readdressed, the otherway round would be ridiculous, but according to the language in the Wasington Post story "Democratic leaders expressed disappointment about the result, but they pointed to language that would require lawmakers to reconsider the key provisions in six months". A new bill could, of course be vetoed, so where does that leave the issue?

lets see.

The twelve who didn't show up didn't need to, of course, but makes you wonder why it's not important to them to not be miscounted among the sixteen.

Does anyone else think it be wonderful if senators had to pay a fine for missing a vote, like a ballpayer missing a game? I can't imagine not having a position worth standing up for on this issue one way or the other.

From reading some of the replies, It ought to be mentioned, although you might not think it necessary, that this is, in fact, an issue that has nothing to do with Iraq. Had shock and awe never occurred, we'd still like to listen in on what Bin Laden's desciples are cooking up.

Not for that, what do you suppose the vote would have been?

[tbone]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

no I did not, which is why democrats overwhelmingly approve of it

You really need to look up the definition of "Overwelming!"

House passes bill 227-183.

At least this bill expires in 6 months so they can do this again.