House approves new Oil Company taxes - Page 3

nbiggershaft · 08-06-2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I don't know what specifically you want... like the tax breaks the big 7 got for years that others didn't?

yes

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The energy lobby that is run by them that pockets a LOT (like, almost all) of politicians?

yes

I was just asking for clarification of what you were implying. Generally OPEC is considered an example of monopolization gone awry when the government is not involved and used to support anti-trust regulation theory.

Rouger2 · 08-06-2007, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Your complaints are created by the gov't. Instead of taxing the companies more so it'll just raise OUR costs, how about we get rid of oil company favoritism.

Well I agree the real culprit is the government and their favoritism because of all the money that the oil companies contribute to their campaigns. One thing this bill is suppose to do it take away their tax breaks. What the government should do is to do something about the noncompetitive nature of the oil business. Here in Texas they allow the auto insurance companies to charge only within the bounderies that they have set. It is because the industry is not really competitive although it seems like it is. They could set price bounderies for the oil companies. Like I have said in another thread capitalism is like a football game and our electied officials are the referees and rule makers.

Ardentfrost · 08-06-2007, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Well I agree the real culprit is the government and their favoritism because of all the money that the oil companies contribute to their campaigns. One thing this bill is suppose to do it take away their tax breaks. What the government should do is to do something about the noncompetitive nature of the oil business. Here in Texas they allow the auto insurance companies to charge only within the bounderies that they have set. It is because the industry is not really competitive although it seems like it is. They could set price bounderies for the oil companies. Like I have said in another thread capitalism is like a football game and our electied officials are the referees and rule makers.

I'm cool with taking back tax breaks... but it's also bad that they thought originally the tax breaks were going to help curb costs to the consumer. More taxes, less taxes... it doesn't matter if we support them controlling our oil imports.

Ardentfrost · 08-06-2007, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

yes

yes

I was just asking for clarification of what you were implying. Generally OPEC is considered an example of monopolization gone awry when the government is not involved and used to support anti-trust regulation theory.

OPEC is foreign and multi-national that we are not directly involved in. We support the domestic companies that import via OPEC.

Rouger2 · 08-06-2007, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by hsmith

taxation removes spendable income from all of society and spends it is specific locations. it is detrimental to all of society

i'd rather them first stop giving all these tax benefits TO oil companies

Why do different locations in the US fight like cats and dogs for new military spending, like new bases or new military suppliers. My city of San Antonio always mentions military spending as a big part of its economy with it having two air force bases and and Army fort. Government spending is a big part of the economy and it is not all bad.

Rouger2 · 08-06-2007, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Who cares what they do with their profits? What does that have to do with you or me? Taxing them for any reason isn't making them pay for whatever the tax is going towards. It's making US pay for whatever the tax is going towards.

Taxes on businesses work the same as any other increased cost. It gets passed on to the consumer. For example, if I sell cardboard boxes for $2 each and my supplier sells them to me for $1 each I make a $1 profit. If now the government decides to add a $.50 tax on cardboard boxes to save the environment I am not going to continue selling my boxes for $2 each. I would raise the price to either $2.50 or EVEN higher and use the government as an excuse. Because now the market is unstable and there is a risk in doing business in that market not knowing what the government will do to screw me over.

This tax on oil effects more than the gas pump. It effects heating homes, electricity, transportation, shipping, etc.

It doesn't have to happen like that in a competitive market. Will each company raise it the full amount if they have to beat or stay with the competition.

DosEquis · 08-06-2007, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

People can't exactly drill for their own oil though. And the example of your father's business is not the norm.

I addressed that in my post. I understand that we have a dependency on that resource and that particular industry has more room for pricing because of its difficulty to obtain and refine, but people will still only pay so much for it. Market value today of unleaded gas is roughly $1.93 a gallon (+ whatever your state taxes are is what you end up paying). It is that price for a reason. If they could get $3.49 a gallon all the time they would do it. Demand is not there for that kind of money so they don't sell it for that much. Though every doom and gloomer in the thread seems to think that is what will happen.

Ardentfrost · 08-06-2007, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I addressed that in my post. I understand that we have a dependency on that resource and that particular industry has more room for pricing because of its difficulty to obtain and refine, but people will still only pay so much for it. Market value today of unleaded gas is roughly $1.93 a gallon (+ whatever your state taxes are is what you end up paying). It is that price for a reason. If they could get $3.49 a gallon all the time they would do it. Demand is not there for that kind of money so they don't sell it for that much. Though every doom and gloomer in the thread seems to think that is what will happen.

the point of the thread is that targeting the oil industry for higher taxes only costs consumers more money... and, of course, it hurts the poorer people the most. An extra 5-10 cents per gallon might not seem like a lot, but it certainly isn't helping the already $3+ we pay currently.

Forget everything about the oligarchy and forcing greater foreign dependence and look at it from a strictly taxation point of view: fuel is one of those things that everybody needs, regardless of how much money you have. To make it cost more only hurts people. I think more people would be screaming bloody murder if they did this as a food tax, but it's really not that different. Tax food directly, or tax going to get the food, either way the poorer you are the more you're hurt by it.

DosEquis · 08-06-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

the point of the thread is that targeting the oil industry for higher taxes only costs consumers more money... and, of course, it hurts the poorer people the most. An extra 5-10 cents per gallon might not seem like a lot, but it certainly isn't helping the already $3+ we pay currently.

Forget everything about the oligarchy and forcing greater foreign dependence and look at it from a strictly taxation point of view: fuel is one of those things that everybody needs, regardless of how much money you have. To make it cost more only hurts people. I think more people would be screaming bloody murder if they did this as a food tax, but it's really not that different. Tax food directly, or tax going to get the food, either way the poorer you are the more you're hurt by it.

I understand that, and I am trying to address it. I am saying the cost increases that everyone is afraid of are going to be minimal at worst and probably none. In an age when a poor family has 2 televisions and cable tv, if they can't pull off another $1.00 at the pump (assuming they drive a pickup truck like me), then they should evaluate their budget and evaluate the vehicle they choose to drive.

RMNIXON · 08-06-2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

damn... poor oil companies.

they're gonna be so broke once the dems get through with raising their taxes

No, because a tax applied to all across the board will be passed on to you!

RMNIXON · 08-06-2007, 06:58 PM

"Republican opponents said the legislation ignored the need to produce more domestic oil, natural gas and coal. One GOP lawmaker bemoaned "the pure venom ... against the oil and gas industry."

In short this does little or nothing for the supply side either.

Rouger2 · 08-06-2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

"Republican opponents said the legislation ignored the need to produce more domestic oil, natural gas and coal. One GOP lawmaker bemoaned "the pure venom ... against the oil and gas industry."

In short this does little or nothing for the supply side either.

That was addressed earlier in this thread when someone wrote that keeping our domestic oil in the ground, since it is a finite resource, is not a bad idea, but with the price of oil where it is now and has been they have got all their rigs running and trying to find more. Nobody is saying the price of oil will go down so there is no worry about the oil companies not looking with all they have for the little oil that there is left in this country.