Phony surge spin; The surge is failing

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by JaJae

No actually the anti-semetic blogger made the claim that the surge wasn't working because the politics of Iraq are bad. He also used the immature argument of numbers dead that we see quite common from uninformed bloggers on DailyKos. Just last week he defended Ahmadinejad on his blog saying the leader of Iran doesn't dislike the Jews Wonderful source for proving a point in the Middle East...

Why don't you stop believing the false information that is spoon-fed to you and actually find out what the President of Iran said, there is nothing that supports your misguided and thoroughly wrong views.

Ahmedinejad does not dislike jews, he dislikes the Zionists. Though he is responsible for nothing of real importance in Iran, the Iranian President has never once made an anti-semetic comment or spoke out against the nation of Israel directly.

You sadly choose to believe bullshit and propaganda coming from the side of NEWSCORP and friends. Many jews themselves are anti-Zionist.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

Why don't you stop believing the false information that is spoon-fed to you and actually find out what the President of Iran said, there is nothing that supports your misguided and thoroughly wrong views.

Looks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck....
Just reading his positions towards Israel and Jews is more than enough evidence to me that he dislikes the Jews. Regardless of how many times his "wiped off the map" statement has been re-interpreted. His own ministers have said that he didn't mean "wiped off the map" in terms of genocide, just that they should be wiped out of the pages of time.

Ahmedinejad does not dislike jews, he dislikes the Zionists. Though he is responsible for nothing of real importance in Iran, the Iranian President has never once made an anti-semetic comment or spoke out against the nation of Israel directly.

Iranian President at Tehran World Without Zionism Conference: "Very Soon, This Stain of Disgrace [i.e. Israel] Will Vanish from the Center of the Islamic World - and This is Attainable"

You sadly choose to believe bullshit and propaganda coming from the side of NEWSCORP and friends. Many jews themselves are anti-Zionist.

No I'm taking the words straight from his own mouth.

[Thorgrim]

If Iran hates all Jews, how come they recieve full recognition as would any Christian or non-muslim group, they even have their own seat in Parliament, along with a dozen synagogues, jewish restuarants, libraries, hospital, etc and a thriving community of 25,000 Jews, the largest in the middle east outside Iran, they have it so good that Jewish-Iranian MP publically objected to Iran's call for a holocaust cartoon competition (in response to the west's prophet cartoons) and also took up issue with several questionable statements from the Iranian president on the future of Israel, it's been long since then and he is still alive and well...and Jews who come back do not claim any real discrimination except they can't get jobs that are reserved for Shia Muslims (duh, even the Sunnis are blocked from that)

For a little more negative view, check out:
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's proud but discreet Jews

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Looks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck....
Just reading his positions towards Israel and Jews is more than enough evidence to me that he dislikes the Jews. Regardless of how many times his "wiped off the map" statement has been re-interpreted. His own ministers have said that he didn't mean "wiped off the map" in terms of genocide, just that they should be wiped out of the pages of time.


Iranian President at Tehran World Without Zionism Conference: "Very Soon, This Stain of Disgrace [i.e. Israel] Will Vanish from the Center of the Islamic World - and This is Attainable"


No I'm taking the words straight from his own mouth.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. It's been discussed many times in the past and you STILL want to take what your government is feeding you over the explanations Ahmedinejad has given for the rhetoric. It's quite simple. Israel is the problem...not Jews. Zionists are the problem...not Jews. Israel as a STATE and COUNTRY needs to be wiped off the map because it shouldn't have been created in the first place (at least where it is.) Iran has a pretty good and public record on how it treats it's Jews...which I am sure you know is the second most numerous in the middle east. (Behind Israel.) So again, if someone hates Jews and wants to kill them all, why aren't they killing their own? Stop being a sheep. Start looking at the facts.

[JaJae]

Like other religious minorities in Iran, Jews suffer from officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing. According to the U.S. Department of State, Jews may not occupy senior positions in the government or the military and are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school heads.[34]

The anti‑Israel policies of the Iranian government, along with a perception among radical Muslims that all Jewish citizens support the State of Israel, create a hostile atmosphere for the Jewish community. In 2004, many Iranian newspapers noted the one-hundredth anniversary of the publishing of the anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[34] Jews often are the target of degrading caricatures in the Iranian press.[citation needed] Jewish leaders reportedly are reluctant to draw attention to official mistreatment of their community due to fear of government reprisal.[34]

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Like other religious minorities in Iran, Jews suffer from officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing. According to the U.S. Department of State, Jews may not occupy senior positions in the government or the military and are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school heads.[34]

The anti‑Israel policies of the Iranian government, along with a perception among radical Muslims that all Jewish citizens support the State of Israel, create a hostile atmosphere for the Jewish community. In 2004, many Iranian newspapers noted the one-hundredth anniversary of the publishing of the anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[34] Jews often are the target of degrading caricatures in the Iranian press.[citation needed] Jewish leaders reportedly are reluctant to draw attention to official mistreatment of their community due to fear of government reprisal.[34]

"like other minorities" aka anything other than shia...oh there goes my dream of getting job at the Iranian Guard!

Jews from Iran go abroad all the time, they is no reason they can't express it when they decide to permanently reside in a western country, unless they really think its no big deal and the EXACT same as US allies in the region

Infact, basically every you cut and paste can be said from all of our best allies in the Middle East except Israel, we almost had a country that DOESN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE ISRAEL AS A COUNTRY control our ports, and even now they still are very much our close friend and ally

So not only is Iran just like every other middle eastern muslim state, but it has the most Jews, probably one of the better countries, we should better acknowledge how well they treat Jews in Iran

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

"like other minorities" aka anything other than shia...oh there goes my dream of getting job at the Iranian Guard!

Jews from Iran go abroad all the time, they is no reason they can't express it when they decide to permanently reside in a western country, unless they really think its no big deal and the EXACT same as US allies in the region

Infact, basically every you cut and paste can be said from all of our best allies in the Middle East except Israel, we almost had a country that DOESN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE ISRAEL AS A COUNTRY control our ports, and even now they still are very much our close friend and ally

So not only is Iran just like every other middle eastern muslim state, but it has the most Jews, probably one of the better countries, we should better acknowledge how well they treat Jews in Iran

Of course just about every Muslim country in the middle east (even our allies) has hostility towards the Jews/Israel. I wasn't the one denying it.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Of course just about every Muslim country in the middle east (even our allies) has hostility towards the Jews/Israel. I wasn't the one denying it.

They have hostility towards:
A) Israelis/Likuds
B) Anyone who is not of the favored religion of the country


Sunni countries "mistreat" Shia and Shia countries "mistreat" Sunnis

That you are singling out Jews is silly, he dislikes the Jews of Iran just as much as he dislikes the Iranian Christians just as much as he dislikes the Iranian Sunnis...

An accurate statement would be "He dislikes Non-Shia"

And Juan Cole was accurate in correctly translating and putting in context that very sentiment...the idea that Jews in Iran are in any sort of special category, especially the murderous hate people like to pin on Iran "he's the hitler of the middle east!" is just plain wrong

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

he dislikes the Jews of Iran

I don't care who the hell else he dislikes. The point is the author of this article has repeatedly made the claim that he wasn't anti-semitic and didn't dislike the Jews. The fact that you're arguing with me for pointing that out AND agreeing with me at the same time is absolutely hilarious.

The reality is, we all know it's true, but excuses need to be made for those who wish to uphold some absurd anti-Israel sentiment when it really doesn't even apply.

Nowhere have I said he's the "Hitler of the Middle East" or any other made up straw man argument others have posted in this thread. Keep making up pointless and frivolous arguments and slamming them down, it doesn't change the facts. Be careful when building a house with hollow bricks.

[Thorgrim]

he also dislikes shia of certain political parties

He isn't anti-semetic in the traditional sense:

Jews bring disaster on their 'host societies' or on the whole world, they are doing it secretly, therefore the antisemites feel obliged to unmask the conspiratorial, bad Jewish character

Professor Bering on modern anti-semitism

Ofcourse, Iran is quite friendly to its native Jews, and never lashes out at the community, or throws out hostility when it easily can

"a religious sect…acting with one mind, and that directed from the mother Society in England. Dispersed, as the Jews, they still form, as those do, one nation, foreign to the land they live in."
Thomas Jefferson complaining about how Jews did not assimilate in America like other immigrants did

Anti-semite!!

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

he also dislikes shia of certain political parties

Who cares, what relation, point, relevancy? I don't recall ever claiming he only disliked the Jews. You're making him sound like more of a hateful man than I was.

"a religious sect…acting with one mind, and that directed from the mother Society in England. Dispersed, as the Jews, they still form, as those do, one nation, foreign to the land they live in."
Thomas Jefferson complaining about how Jews did not assimilate like other immigrants did

Anti-semite!!

Yea that's very similar to institutional discrimination.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Who cares, what relation, point, relevancy? I don't recall ever claiming he only disliked the Jews. You're making him sound like more of a hateful man than I was.


Yea that's very similar to institutional discrimination.

It's actually worse to be put down publically as a group than to be passed over for a job

Anyway, the point is, he did not make anti-jewish statements when people said he did, whatever policies are in effect now, are controlled by the mullahs, and he has not set any anti-semetic policies