Barry Bonds: Discuss - Page 2

WickedLou9 · 08-08-2007, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Then why haven't roids enhanced their performances to a point where we even notice them?

You don't watch baseball. People have noticed. Look at Palmeiro. The guy admitted juicing. As soon as he started he started hitting alot more, and after the admission and he stopped taking roids, his stats went back down again.

WickedLou9 · 08-08-2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You say that like he was walking around with a roid IV attached to his arm and an Andro enema every day? If so, why not ONE SINGLE positive test? Why not ONE SINGLE shred of PHYSICAL evidence?

I already explained that. Baseball has perhaps the most lax testing policy that exists in professional sports. The players know ahead of time when it will be, and tests are few and far between. Also, alot of the steriods were cutting edge and could not be detected in standard tests.

For those people that really care about baseball, this matters. it's cheating. And when you have a record held by someone so revered as Hank Aaron broken by a cheater, people are resentful. If you don't care about the game obviously you don't care about barry bonds or some silly record held by some guy you don't care about.

DosEquis · 08-08-2007, 04:49 PM

Its about competition and there is potentially millions of dollars on the line. I can see where the motivation is today to use drugs which could give a player a better chance at being on the field. If you don't play you don't get paid.

Whether it be drugs, corked bats, greasing a ball, or otherwise to try to get a competitive advantage, it is cheating because it is not allowed. Cheating happens in everything from baseball, football, cycling, nascar, you name it. Thats really the bottom line. The question is what should the punishment be. In this case steriods affects everything they do. Without steriods he would not have hit 756 home runs. They need to figure out how long he has been using these drugs and remove all his stats after the point he started doing it, fine him heavily, and suspend him indefinitely until he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt he is no longer using these substances.

hsmith · 08-08-2007, 04:56 PM

Hopefully people will shut the fuck up about him now

nbiggershaft · 08-08-2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Babe Ruth did it while drunk, screwing a hooker and smoking a cigar. That fat bastard was definately not on roids.

Clearly giving him a solid moral character above taking steroids

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

it was a different game back then.

I think this ideology just falls under the false image everyone gives previous generations.

nbiggershaft · 08-08-2007, 05:37 PM

If you want any evidence of how stupid our perception of baseball is, look at how taboo our perception of bat corking. A procedure that would do almost nothing to a batters swing, and it's CHEATING. You get more effect by adding a little rubber thing on a tennis racquet, but in baseball, anything that changes the game in any way, CHEATING.

"Nowadays they replace the ball if it gets a scratch on it, baseball these days"

WickedLou9 · 08-08-2007, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

Clearly giving him a solid moral character above taking steroids

I think this ideology just falls under the false image everyone gives previous generations.

well drinking and smoking certainly didn't give him an unfair advantage over other players. The integrity of the game was not effected.

People get pissed because the players that do it right, the ones that play by the rules get overshadowed by cheaters. If baseball is anything it's fair. The steriod thing changes that. People who love and respect the game have a right to be pissed about that.

thomez · 08-08-2007, 06:08 PM

If he wasn't juicing his trainer wouldn't be sitting in jail right now refusing to talk.

He's a cheater, but fortunately 756+ won't last nearly as long as 755 did and he will be in the shadows again.

Babe Ruth was far superior anyway

WickedLou9 · 08-08-2007, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

If he wasn't juicing his trainer wouldn't be sitting in jail right now refusing to talk.

He's a cheater, but fortunately 756+ won't last nearly as long as 755 did and he will be in the shadows again.

Babe Ruth was far superior anyway

I think A-rod might be on pace to break that record. He already hit 500 and he is still pretty young.

thomez · 08-08-2007, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I think A-rod might be on pace to break that record. He already hit 500 and he is still pretty young.

he's on pace to hit 800+ if he can stay healthy

Donkey® · 08-08-2007, 06:38 PM

To you guys who say "Bonds cheated" etc...exactly how many of those balls he hit went over the fence because of the steroids?

thomez · 08-08-2007, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

To you guys who say "Bonds cheated" etc...exactly how many of those balls he hit went over the fence because of the steroids?

that is impossible to say, but he has hit more than half of his homeruns since suddenly blowing up into what his teamates called "the incredible hulk"

motivez · 08-08-2007, 07:59 PM

Not a legitimate record, he's a cheater.

Donkey® · 08-08-2007, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

that is impossible to say, but he has hit more than half of his homeruns since suddenly blowing up into what his teamates called "the incredible hulk"

I could stick the most muscled man in the world in front of a pitcher and he'd hit 756 HRs? His size is inconsequential to the feat and his BASEBALL skill.

thomez · 08-08-2007, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I could stick the most muscled man in the world in front of a pitcher and he'd hit 756 HRs? His size is inconsequential to the feat and his BASEBALL skill.

power is definitely a factor in how FAR you hit a baseball, which is what a homerun is, a feat of distance

if he was batting .400 and the question was still roids use, a very logical argument could be made that it has little or no effect on batting average

the same cannot be said for home runs

Donkey® · 08-08-2007, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

power is definitely a factor in how FAR you hit a baseball, which is what a homerun is, a feat of distance

if he was batting .400 and the question was still roids use, a very logical argument could be made that it has little or no effect on batting average

the same cannot be said for home runs

His size isn't the only thing involved in hitting a HR. The ballpark...the pitcher...the ball...the weather...the sun...the quality of the opposing pitcher. All the naysayers are trivializing the feat of the HR by saying size is the only reason you can hit them. Hank Aaron wasn't a HUGE guy. If we're going to trivialize it, let's take away ALL of Aaron's HRs that were hit inside a dome or the ones that he hit during a night game because Ruth didn't get to do that. You can take one singularity of the feat and pick it to death. Still doesn't mean a thing. People say Bonds took illegal drugs, prove it. No guilt by association. No he said she said. No grand jury testimony that doesn't prove a thing.

thomez · 08-08-2007, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

His size isn't the only thing involved in hitting a HR. All the naysayers are trivializing the feat of the HR by saying size is the only reason you can hit them.

who has said that?

I'm gonna go with.... nobody.

Donkey® · 08-08-2007, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

who has said that?

I'm gonna go with.... nobody.

That's all people are using as evidence...his size. He's "the hulk"....he "got all big." Seems like it to me. When someone says "he used roids" what do you think they're saying? Steroids make you big...ie give you more power...ie his size is the reason he hits the homeruns.

thomez · 08-08-2007, 09:07 PM

I haven't seen anyone suggest that his size is the only factor in him hitting home runs, obviously it isn't because he hit home runs before he got big, just not nearly as often as after. The increased power that he added has obviously helped him hit more home runs though.

Donkey® · 08-08-2007, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

I haven't seen anyone suggest that his size is the only factor in him hitting home runs, obviously it isn't because he hit home runs before he got big, just not nearly as often as after. The increased power that he added has obviously helped him hit more home runs though.

And where is the proof he put on that size illegally? There's nothing but wild speculation.