If a Democrat wins in '08, does this mean the US isn't considered racist or sexist?

ballz2wallz · 08-11-2007, 10:15 PM

Let's face it, the two real contenders in the Democratic presidential race are Obama and Clinton, both considered 'minorities' by standards of the not-so-distant past. If a Democrats wins the presidential candidacy in '08, it will likely be one of the two.

If one of them wins, can we really call our country a racist or sexist country any longer? I mean, sure, we'll ahve racist or sexist people in the country, which is always the case, but surely a country cannot be led by a black man or woman if the general concensus is a belief in racism or sexism?

I think it would be proof positive that we are not in fact either

motivez · 08-12-2007, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

both considered 'minorities' by standards of the not-so-distant past.

Huh?

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

If one of them wins, can we really call our country a racist or sexist country any longer? I mean, sure, we'll ahve racist or sexist people in the country, which is always the case, but surely a country cannot be led by a black man or woman if the general concensus is a belief in racism or sexism?

As a nation, we've come a long way in becoming more progressive and embracing more liberal ideas about race and gender roles in society, but I still think there's room to improve, and there probably always will be. I'm not sure a "perfect equality" can exist honestly.

I don't know that anyone purports that the "general consensus" in America is racism or sexism now, though.

thomez · 08-12-2007, 01:08 AM

who is saying that America is currently racist or sexist?

Scrum · 08-12-2007, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

who is saying that America is currently racist or sexist?

liberals!

IminWonderland · 08-12-2007, 04:18 AM

Well, I don't think this is really JUST an American idea.

I can see other countries where Race and Gender Discrimination happens even harsher, and even more frequently.

I think the difference, being a woman and part of this "minority", is that because I'm an American Woman, I have to be happy for all the opportunity that surrounds me and then feel punished for the choices I make, no matter what they are. So the reality is, there is no choice. But I get to pretend like I do have choice as a woman, when even 1 wrong choice could land me and possibley my children in a crisis situation. But, well, at least I get to make that choice.

In other countries, being a woman is in itself, a liability. I could potentially lose my life from all the tortures availible, like genital mutilation, rape, being forced to have a baby for the purposes of watering down my ethnic heritage, not being able to report abuse, or any of the other horrors that exist to be a woman in a different country.

I think in today's American Culture, we don't know what to do with women anymore. The line between what used to be societal norm, and what is societal norm now has been crossed to the point of no return. Women get to have choice, to marry, to have kids, to have a career, to be what they want to be. And those are all great things. But, the barrier women have not crossed is how to overcome the guilt of what the still standing expectation is for being a woman.

I would say that here in America, as a woman I have it good.

But I have to take Valium to enjoy it.

I think if a Democrat wins in '08, it won't prove anything, because I'm sure Hillary will only make 70% of what a Male President Makes. And Obama wouldn't be able to accomplish anything because he would get pulled over so much for being a rich black man in a nice car.

ballz2wallz · 08-12-2007, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

who is saying that America is currently racist or sexist?

A lot of people do

On a regular basis you hear 'we've come a long way, but not far enough' from both women and blacks. I believe that guy from Sweden that posts here also accused us of being racist not too long ago.

ballz2wallz · 08-12-2007, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I would say that here in America, as a woman I have it good.

But I have to take Valium to enjoy it.

Nice.

ballz2wallz · 08-12-2007, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

Huh?

Women and blacks have been considered minorities, right?

thomez · 08-12-2007, 10:51 AM

I'm pretty sure there are more women than men in this country, at least that is normally how population works in almost all cultures.

ballz2wallz · 08-12-2007, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

I'm pretty sure there are more women than men in this country, at least that is normally how population works in almost all cultures.

Why play coy with me? Why not admit that women have been considered a minority when it comes to civil liberties in the past, and in the workplace in present times? Isn't that what the feminist movement was about?

thomez · 08-12-2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Why play coy with me? Why not admit that women have been considered a minority when it comes to civil liberties in the past, and in the workplace in present times? Isn't that what the feminist movement was about?

You can't be a minority when you outnumber the majority. You can claim that you are treated unfairly or whatever... like a minority, I guess.

As wiki says - Minority group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While in most societies, numbers of men and women are roughly equal, the status of women as a subordinate group has led some to equate them with minorities.

Women are equated with minorities but they are not minorities by definition.

WickedLou9 · 08-12-2007, 02:49 PM

Don't get caught up on terminology, you understand what he is saying. It would perhaps have been better if he had said "They are both members of a protected class" or both are or have been considered disadvantaged or discriminated against... or something like that, but the point is the same.

ballz2wallz · 08-12-2007, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Don't get caught up on terminology, you understand what he is saying. It would perhaps have been better if he had said "They are both members of a protected class" or both are or have been considered disadvantaged or discriminated against... or something like that, but the point is the same.

People would rather argue about definitions of words than the points of the posts

Thank you for the clarification.

RMNIXON · 08-12-2007, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

who is saying that America is currently racist or sexist?

Mrs. Edwards?

"In some ways, it's the way we have to go," Edwards says. "We can't make John black, we can't make him a woman. Those things get you a lot of press, worth a certain amount of fundraising dollars."

jimeigh · 08-12-2007, 05:45 PM

even the fact that they're contenders says that "something" has changed.

thomez · 08-12-2007, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Don't get caught up on terminology, you understand what he is saying. It would perhaps have been better if he had said "They are both members of a protected class" or both are or have been considered disadvantaged or discriminated against... or something like that, but the point is the same.

Shh... I'm just practicing the debate strategy that he has perfected.

jimeigh · 08-12-2007, 07:51 PM

although there is still a major problem in our country. i speak of course, about racism against astronauts.

Astronauts

goldenponderbob · 08-18-2007, 05:29 PM

I think a democrat will win in 08' regardless, but it would make it a really interesting race for the GOP to counter with Condoleza!

You might even get young people involved, like back in 60', and that would be great.

RMNIXON · 08-18-2007, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by goldenponderbob

I think a democrat will win in 08' regardless, but it would make it a really interesting race for the GOP to counter with Condoleza!

You might even get young people involved, like back in 60', and that would be great.

The important question in time of War is whether we will have a good leader in the White House. Not some race or gender breakthough celebration in 2008. We can all debate what we think is a good leader. But God help us if our voting priority is for something else!

IminWonderland · 08-18-2007, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The important question in time of War is whether we will have a good leader in the White House. Not some race or gender breakthough celebration in 2008. We can all debate what we think is a good leader. But God help us if our voting priority is for something else!

I don't think that's the important question to answer.

War isn't the only crisis we encounter.

I can think of MANY other issues more pressing.