Originally Posted by Donkey® The problem wasn't with the invasion and if it was a good idea. The problem comes in where this faggot specifically said it would be a cluster fuck after the invasion. He knew this back in 1991 and it still applies today. That only means in ...
08-20-2007, 09:19 PM
| #101 | ||||
| Junkie  Republican 
| Originally Posted by Donkey® 
 No matter how many times you tell it, that joke just never loses its funny!Tell me again how "topple the old government, and install a new constitutional government by, of, and for the people" isn't a plan. That's my favorite part.  | ||||
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08-20-2007, 09:46 PM
| #102 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator  Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by Joe_Cool So then please inform the rest of us of the changes in Iraq that made overthrowing Saddam worth more American lives.
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08-20-2007, 09:57 PM
| #103 | ||||
| Junkie Republican
| Originally Posted by Scrum The fact that Saddam is no longer in power.
But why do I suspect you meant to exclude that from the options? | ||||
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08-20-2007, 10:03 PM
| #104 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator  Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by Joe_Cool That was part of the plan. Nobody is denying that was part of the plan. The idea of the aftermath of removing Saddam. The sectarian violence between three groups of people. The external influence from Iran, Saudi, Jordan, etc. The quagmire that Cheney speaks of in 1994... that detail was forgotten in 2002-2003. He knew it, did not mention it, and they did not put a plan in for it. Today there are 4000 americans dead because of it.
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08-20-2007, 10:48 PM
| #105 | ||||
| Junkie Republican
| Originally Posted by DosEquis Boy, you just can't wait for the big 4K, can you? Have you bought your party hats and ordered the cake & keg yet?
It's 3707, just FYI. And the fact that we've been fighting for 54 months and have only lost 3700 people is still pretty f-ing amazing, if you ask me. And along the way we've decimated an army, toppled a government, instituted a new one, shepherded the drafting and ratification of a new Constitution, and overseen the first free elections in the nation's history. Not so shabby, say I. | ||||
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08-20-2007, 10:59 PM
| #106 | ||||
| Friend to all.  Socialist Maryland
| Originally Posted by Joe_Cool
Let the spin machine slow down just a tad. You do realize a migrating under-trained, under-equipped and undisciplined force have killed 3700 of our superior soldiers...drawing out a conflict for 54 months with no end in sight? There is no victory here. Ever. THAT's what's pretty amazing to me. | ||||
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08-20-2007, 11:24 PM
| #107 | ||||
| Junkie Republican
| Originally Posted by Donkey® Wait, you mean soldiers are having trouble acting like police instead of fighting an enemy? The hell you say!
Like I said before, we need to unleash our army (I mean it in the literal sense of the word - take them off the political leash they're on) and let them prosecute this as a war, instead of pretending to be police. But that'll never happen, because everybody is too afraid of casualties (actually, democrats should love this idea, because they'll get to demonize our soldiers again, instead of having to pretend that they love the troops!) to actually let them fight. Either way, we've killed a hell of a lot more of them than they've killed of us, and we have the disadvantage of wearing uniforms and being visible. I'm sure if our guys were dressed as villagers and got to pretend to be civilians every time they came under attack, like our enemies do, it would be going a lot differently. | ||||
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08-20-2007, 11:26 PM
| #108 | ||||
| Junkie Republican
| Originally Posted by Donkey® Do you think I could borrow your crystal ball some time? I need to know if I'll ever be able to come up with the money to get a new transmission in my car.
 That must be a freaking handy little item. | ||||
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08-21-2007, 12:47 AM
| #109 | ||||
| Master Debator Election Moderator Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by Joe_Cool Thats it? Do I have my party hat ready for 4,000? No, i will not order cake to go with my keg because beer and cake do not mix.
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08-21-2007, 01:01 AM
| #110 | ||||
| Junkie Republican
| Originally Posted by DosEquis Amateur.
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08-21-2007, 01:47 AM
| #111 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by Joe_Cool Nice circular logic.
 It was worth it because we did it? | ||||
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08-21-2007, 01:50 AM
| #112 | ||||
| Junkie Republican
| Originally Posted by Scrum We did it because we believed it was worth it. Obviously, since it was our primary goal.
 You're really reaching. | ||||
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08-21-2007, 01:51 AM
| #113 | ||||
| Not New  libertarian
| Joe_Cool, how about you address the topic at hand instead of falling back on the old 'Democrats love dead soldiers' stalwart? Cheney knew that the Iraqis wouldn't greet us as liberators, that major combat operations would take longer than a few weeks, that oil wouldn't pay for the war, etc., yet he took none of that into account when planning and promoting the war. Not even in private planning for the war did he bother to mention this. How are you okay with this blatant display of dishonesty? | ||||
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08-21-2007, 01:55 AM
| #114 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by Joe_Cool So what had changed?
Originally Posted by Joe_Cool You're really dancing around a simple question.
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08-21-2007, 02:24 AM
| #115 | ||||
| Junkie Republican
| Originally Posted by Scrum How the fuck am I dancing around it? I answered it directly.
Q: What have we accomplished that was worth the lives of 3700 soldiers? A: Removed Saddam Hussein from power, toppled his government, replaced it with a Constitutional government, and oversaw the first free elections in Iraq's history. What else are you looking for? Stained a blue dress? | ||||
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08-21-2007, 04:46 AM
| #116 | ||||
| Left Wing Hack  Democrat Hastings, NE
| Originally Posted by Joe_Cool All that would have been true in the first Gulf war. Yet Cheney said removing Saddam wouldn't have been worth it because it would have been a US occupation, it would be difficult to get a functional government to replace Saddam's, you risk a civil war, The Iranians would gain influence over atleast part of Iraq and finally losing any more than 146 soldiers doesn't makes the whole idea not worth it at all.
So... What was different in the second gulf war that made all of Cheney's concerns about removing Saddam in the first Gulf War no longer relevent? Did they do something different in the second gulf war that they weren't able to do in the first one? Was Iraq much different? Did we develop some super weapon so more than 150 troops wouldn't die after we took down Saddam's government? What exactly. ibliberalshateourtroopsandwantthemtodiesotheycange tvoteslololol
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08-21-2007, 10:33 AM
| #117 | ||||
| no es mi culpa  Independent Beantown
| Jr. wanted to finish what daddy couldn't??????
__________________ There is small disproportion betwixt a fool who useth not wit because he hath it not and him that useth it not when it should avail him. | ||||
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08-21-2007, 11:19 AM
| #118 | ||||
| A realist in the land of the fanatical  Realist Kansas City, MO 
| Originally Posted by Linzyhop I LOVE off-topic posts!!!
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08-21-2007, 11:37 AM
| #119 | ||||
| no es mi culpa Independent Beantown
| Originally Posted by P/N actually i was commenting on the post below me.
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08-21-2007, 11:41 AM
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