Wow...Cheney explains why invading Iraq is a bad idea.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

actually i was commenting on the post below me.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Well, let's see... Saddam ignored the cease-fire agreement (fired on our planes, violated the no-fly zone, ejected weapon inspectors, continued pursuing nuclear weapon programs) AND attempted the assassination of a US President.

Maybe they decided that getting him out of power was more important than it had been before.

What does that have to do with Cheney recognizing that there would be a civil war/sectarian violence, iranian influence, saudi influence, and having it be a general quagmire.... and then not planning for it and not mentioning it.

People will die in war, but less people die when they are better prepared.

How was that not the ultimate disservice to our people in uniform?

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

What does that have to do with Cheney recognizing that there would be a civil war/sectarian violence, iranian influence, saudi influence, and having it be a general quagmire.... and then not planning for it and not mentioning it.

Who didn't plan for it or mention it? Did you really delude yourself into thinking once we toppled Saddam it would be all kittens and bunnies and flowers and rainbows? Just because you didn't get a memo, that doesn't mean nobody knew or was prepared.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Well, let's see... Saddam ignored the cease-fire agreement (fired on our planes, violated the no-fly zone, ejected weapon inspectors, continued pursuing nuclear weapon programs) AND attempted the assassination of a US President.

Maybe they decided that getting him out of power was more important than it had been before.

You can keep rattling on and on about shit that really isn't on point. The POINT, as stated a few times, is the fact that him and most people in that administration KNEW Iraq would be a cluster fuck once Saddam was disposed of and STILL...they went in with NO PLAN, NO FORESIGHT, NOT ENOUGH TROOPS, ETC, ETC...costing the lives of 3700 soldiers, BILLIONS of dollars and there is absolutely NO END IN SIGHT. So, would you like to address that or keep talking about bullshit?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Who didn't plan for it or mention it? Did you really delude yourself into thinking once we toppled Saddam it would be all kittens and bunnies and flowers and rainbows? Just because you didn't get a memo, that doesn't mean nobody knew or was prepared.

Actually it was the GOP and the Bush administration who thought it would be kittens and bunnies, we were constantly told we'd be greeted as liberators and internal memos and official comments show that it was planned that we'd be mostly out after a few months

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You can keep rattling on and on about shit that really isn't on point. The POINT, as stated a few times, is the fact that him and most people in that administration KNEW Iraq would be a cluster fuck once Saddam was disposed of and STILL...they went in with NO PLAN, NO FORESIGHT, NOT ENOUGH TROOPS, ETC, ETC...costing the lives of 3700 soldiers, BILLIONS of dollars and there is absolutely NO END IN SIGHT. So, would you like to address that or keep talking about bullshit?

Because they decided that getting him out of power was worth the cost.

Would you like me to repeat it more times? I'll be happy to if you require it.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

[size="7"]Because they decided that getting him out of power was worth the cost.

Would you like me to repeat it more times? I'll be happy to if you require it.

You're still missing the point. Let's try to simplify so you can conceptualize the whole thing. Let's say Iraq is a little boy. That little boy is walking out in the middle of a large frozen lake and falls in. The firemen come and they know anyone that tries to rescue the boy by walking out on the lake is going to fall in...so...do they think that the cost is worth it to just let firefighter after firefighter stroll out onto the lake and fall in? Or do they come up with a different plan?


So...when we KNEW Iraq was going to be an endless pit of death and destruction, why did we just stroll right in without a decent plan? That is total and complete incompetence. Incompetence is NOT excused by "it's worth it." If you asked me "Is disposing of Saddam worth 3700 American soldiers lives?" I would say yes. But is it worth 3700 WASTED American soldiers lives? I am saying NO. When you go into something that you know is going to turn out a certain way...and it's all bad...and you do not prepare your troops with the right equipment, with a proper plan and sound direction...it's fucking incompetence. Plain and simple. This is why your fucking bullshit party line, bleed red reasoning doesn't work here.

[Joe_Cool]

Sorry, you fail at analogies. Losing 3700 soldiers in combat sucks, but it's still fucking brilliant as combat goes. The equivalent, in your "kid in the lake" analogy, is maybe one firefighter sprains his ankle while saving the kid.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Sorry, you fail at analogies. Losing 3700 soldiers in combat sucks, but it's still fucking brilliant as combat goes. The equivalent, in your "kid in the lake" analogy, is maybe one firefighter sprains his ankle while saving the kid.

They expected insurgents and IED's and said nothing and did not prepare for them. They have IED resistant vehicles that increases the chance a soldier will survive by 70%. A good portion of our lost and wounded soldiers have been from IED's. Proper preparation would have probably reduced our death toll by probably 1,000 soldiers. A lot of those who were wounded and can no longer walk again, or lost an arm, or are now blind, would have been spared from their permanent disability.

Its not fucking brilliant. I will call democrats on their bullshit and do frequently. Its time for you to recognize Cheney and this administrations bullshit.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Sorry, you fail at analogies. Losing 3700 soldiers in combat sucks, but it's still fucking brilliant as combat goes. The equivalent, in your "kid in the lake" analogy, is maybe one firefighter sprains his ankle while saving the kid.

I see how much you value the lives of our soldiers. I am done with you.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I see how much you value the lives of our soldiers. I am done with you.

The founding fathers would be disgusted with us if they heard people saying 3,700 american lives is a good bargain so we can have an occupation of a desert country on the other side of the world and impose our idea of government on them, when they posed no threat to us while the UN inspectors were there in 2003

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I see how much you value the lives of our soldiers. I am done with you.

Right. We should end any conflict as soon as even one soldier sustains an injury. Because you love the troops JUST THAT MUCH.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I see how much you value the lives of our soldiers. I am done with you.

Good call.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Good call.

Wait, are you questioning my patriotism, after you just gave me a negative rep when you claim I did the same?

"Valuing the lives of our soldiers" doesn't exclude valuing the job they're doing. They knew the job was dangerous when they took it. It's not like they signed up to groom puppies and got thrown into combat.

They're soldiers. Everybody needs to STFU and let them do their job.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Wait, are you questioning my patriotism, after you just gave me a negative rep when you claim I did the same?

"Valuing the lives of our soldiers" doesn't exclude valuing the job they're doing. They knew the job was dangerous when they took it. It's not like they signed up to groom puppies and got thrown into combat.

They're soldiers. Everybody needs to STFU and let them do their job.

Yeah, it's so easy for them to do their jobs without guidance, direction, the right equipment or a plan. GO GET 'EM BOYS!!!!


You would rather tow your party line and coddle your precious administration nutsack instead of acknowledge what the rest of the fucking country has acknowledged. Go YOU!!!

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Yeah, it's so easy for them to do their jobs without guidance, direction, the right equipment or a plan. GO GET 'EM BOYS!!!!

They don't have guidance, equipment, or a plan? They're just wandering around aimlessly, with no clue what they're supposed to do?

You have a pretty amazing imagination. You should write novels.

You would rather tow your party line and coddle your precious administration nutsack instead of acknowledge what the rest of the fucking country has acknowledged. Go YOU!!!

1) it's TOE the line.
2) not sharing in the democratic party's delusions is not the same as coddling the administration's nutsack.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

They don't have guidance, equipment, or a plan? They're just wandering around aimlessly, with no clue what they're supposed to do?

You have a pretty amazing imagination. You should write novels.

After what, 5 years, the plan is now "The surge?" After what, 5 years, they are finally getting more armor for their IED protection? Wow. Great plan. That strategy is outstanding. You can keep twisting and turning but the POINT OF THE THREAD is that Cheney and crew KNEW what was going to happen and sent our troops in with NO PLAN FOR VICTORY. Sent our troops in with NO CLEAR DIRECTION (besides "Get Saddam!!!!") Sent our troops in WITHOUT PROPER GEAR. It's pathetic you still can't get it.

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

[qutoe]You would rather tow your party line and coddle your precious administration nutsack instead of acknowledge what the rest of the fucking country has acknowledged. Go YOU!!!
1) it's TOE the line.
2) not sharing in the democratic party's delusions is not the same as coddling the administration's nutsack.

1) If you're going to correct me and such, spell the word "quote" right.
2) Keep deflecting the issues with the whole grammar thing...works out well for most trolls.
3) I am not a Democrat nor do I think their decision making concerning this war was good. They share the blame...but to less of an extent because they were not the party in power.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

After what, 5 years, the plan is now "The surge?" After what, 5 years, they are finally getting more armor for their IED protection? Wow. Great plan. That strategy is outstanding. You can keep twisting and turning but the POINT OF THE THREAD is that Cheney and crew KNEW what was going to happen and sent our troops in with NO PLAN FOR VICTORY. Sent our troops in with NO CLEAR DIRECTION (besides "Get Saddam!!!!") Sent our troops in WITHOUT PROPER GEAR. It's pathetic you still can't get it.

What's pathetic is the way you relentlessly parrot democrat talking points (especially since you say you're not one), ignore any news that doesn't fit into your opinion, and refuse to apply reasoning to the situation.

1) If you're going to correct me and such, spell the word "quote" right.

OH NO, I transposed two letters????? That's much worse than not knowing the difference between "toe" and "tow", which are entirely different words.

2) Keep deflecting the issues with the whole grammar thing...works out well for most trolls.

If I had tried to deflect the issue, I wouldn't have addressed it, and you would not have posted this response to me:

3) I am not a Democrat nor do I think their decision making concerning this war was good. They share the blame...but to less of an extent because they were not the party in power.

I didn't say anything about you. I said that refusing to wallow in bad news made up by Bush's opponents does not constitute "coddling his nut sack".

[motivez]

Guys, keep it civil or you risk being removed from the thread / receiving infractions. Consider this a general warning.