Originally Posted by Thorgrim "we're not making any progress in Iraq, infact we're going backwards" When they say things are getting "worse" they are saying we're going "backwards." Which they have said repeatedly. Harping over exact terminology doesn't make a case true. Also, taking one clip from Snow a year ...
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08-15-2007, 04:10 PM
| #21 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur.  Reform Party NJ 
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim When they say things are getting "worse" they are saying we're going "backwards." Which they have said repeatedly. Harping over exact terminology doesn't make a case true. Also, taking one clip from Snow a year ago when the term civil war issue was being debated isn't prove that people haven't said things have gotten worse. In fact, I'm pretty sure I can find threads on this forum about it... Many within the military have said we're "now" involved in a civil war. How is that not saying "we're going backwards." In my opinion this argument is harping on terminology and therefore has no merit. 
__________________ No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair. Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid: As we look back in history, the Founding Fathers would be cringing to hear people talking about eliminating earmarks. | ||||
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08-15-2007, 04:18 PM
| #22 | ||||
| Banned - Self Imposed  Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by JaJae Because the Iraqis have decided to fight more doesn't mean the US military is doing a worse job
That's exactly what Gen. Petraeus is saying right now, that the Military is doing a better job now...when has anyone said "oh the US military, they're doing a HORRIBLE job over there" no we just blamed Iraqis Again, this all just repeated news, no one has ever had anything but praise for the US military's job...praising it now is absolutely nothing new...I've not heard a consensus from on the ground commanders that Iraqis themselves have turned the corner...far from it, the Sunnis are in bloody tribal groups, the Kurds are supporting an anti-turkish terrorist group, and the Shia are split into several different genocidal militia groups...all together the Iraqis can't even pass an oil bill they've been debating for years just to get a foundation You can't point to Anbar because the Sunnis are actually pulling AWAY from Maliki and the Iraqi government and constantly repeat that they are about to go after Shia strongholds in a surge...of civil war violence | ||||
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08-15-2007, 05:27 PM
| #23 | ||||
| Pinko Commie Bastard  Communist Moscow
| Originally Posted by JaJae It was expected to happen because we stepped up our forces in Baghdad by a tremendous amount, therefore it is much easier to target locations outside of the "surge". It's a whack-a-mole strategy.
__________________ Perhaps the sentiments contained in the preceding post, are not yet sufficiently favorable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason. - slightly modified from Common Sense, Thomas Paine, 1776 I am Ron Paul, Congressman from Texas... I am the champion of the Constitution.  | ||||
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08-15-2007, 05:40 PM
| #24 | ||||
| Ron Paul 2008  libertarian Fuck Big Government
| JaJae of course that is the insurgents motive for the attack but the point is that they still have the capability to execute such an attack. They have had that capability from the start and will continue to have that capability for eternity. The question is how long are we going to stay in Iraq? We could be there for another twenty years but nothing will change. The insurgents will not give up and they will continue to reek havoc at the same rate. Why stay? How many years of standing around and getting blown up is too much? | ||||
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08-15-2007, 05:43 PM
| #25 | ||||
| Better Dead than Red  Democrat "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them.”
| Originally Posted by Darko
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08-15-2007, 05:47 PM
| #26 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by Darko I am not advocating staying in Iraq one bit. In fact, I favored the Democrats in 06 because they were willing to start moving us out of Iraq. I think it needs to be done properly and safely with the best interests of the Iraqis and our soldiers in mind. However, the reality of this event is that it was done to influence American politics and it should be stated. al Qaeda an d other religious extremists in the middle east will be a threat long after we're gone in Iraq. They will continue to look for excuses to kill each other on religious grounds. We will not be able to change that, I understand that and feel we need to conduct ourselves in accordance.
Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM Excellent contribution as usual. | ||||
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08-15-2007, 05:50 PM
| #27 | ||||
| Ron Paul 2008 libertarian Fuck Big Government
| Originally Posted by JaJae Fair enough
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08-15-2007, 06:02 PM
| #28 | ||||
| Better Dead than Red Democrat "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them.”
| Originally Posted by JaJae sorry man, i'll check with you before i agree with someone
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08-15-2007, 06:14 PM
| #29 | ||||
| Banned - Self Imposed Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM Notice how he's all about how we're in it for the long haul against AQ, even in Iraq (where it never existed before) and all about moving our troops out of harms way in Iraq, yet still ardently pro-surge everything is getting better
There has to be 3 other threads where i tried to get to him actually lay out a clear opinion with dates, specifics, etc... He just takes every position, and makes vague anti-Democratic attacks, that way he can never be "wrong" because if the surge is cut short, the surge is longer and goes well, or the surge is longer and doesn't go well, basically no matter what happens he can point to a post and say "see i was right!!!" | ||||
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08-15-2007, 06:17 PM
| #30 | ||||
| Better Dead than Red Democrat "My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them.”
| Originally Posted by JaJae
 FUCKING BULLSHIT Santorum rips Casey in debate Lieberman up by 17 points (we all know lieberman's stance) Ted Kennedy caught in another scandal! McCain responds to John Kerry's anti-military statements Blacks of Maryland tell Democrats "It's not gonna be like that no more" Cardin says he would support cutting funding for Iraq war i think it's pretty clear what side you were on just prior to elections | ||||
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08-15-2007, 06:29 PM
| #31 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM Another lame example of the typical post quality expected.
Just because I don't support every Democrat that ever ran for a position like some people in this thread doesn't mean I didn't want the Democrats to win. In fact, you can find posts that state otherwise repeatedly on th is forum. In fact, I clicked the first link you provided and found this post: Originally Posted by JaJae In the Lieberman thread:
The Kennedy thread has nothing to do with Iraq or Republicans vs Democrats in the election. He wasn't even up for re-election. I made a thread about a scandal he was involved in. I don't like Kennedy and most reasonable Democrats don't either. John Kerry's "stuck in Iraq" has nothing to do with elections either. Another baseless and pointless post.  | ||||
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08-15-2007, 06:34 PM
| #32 | ||||
| Banned - Self Imposed Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Wow, you didn't support the GOP candidate even Karl Rove wouldn't support...and you weren't fond of the most right-wing Republican in the Senate...yeah, really cheering for the Democrats, im convinced Again, take every side on every issue so no one can ever say you were wrong... | ||||
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08-15-2007, 06:37 PM
| #33 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim I'm not willing to ignore the information coming out of Iraq simply because I only like to talk about the negatives and make up statistics and numbers in a failed attempt to attack the GOP. Right now with Petraeus leading Iraq I think they're doing about as good as can be expected. The situation itself is a clusterfuck.
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08-15-2007, 06:39 PM
| #34 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim How do I take every side on every issue? I think I have been pretty firm on my stances here. Just because I disagree with what the Republicans have been doing and want a change doesn't mean I support everything the Democrats propose. I'm not that ignorant.
It's interesting how quickly people choose to divert a thread into attacking me rather than attempting to counter what I have said. It's getting fairly common and ever more pathetic. | ||||
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08-15-2007, 06:49 PM
| #35 | ||||
| Never, never, never give up  Conservative Party High Point, NC
| Originally Posted by JaJae Funny how easy it is sometimes, isn't it?
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08-15-2007, 06:50 PM
| #36 | ||||
| Yeah, that guy.  Progressive Oregon
| Originally Posted by JaJae This is what I hate about the crowd that wants us to stay in Iraq. They always have fucking vague timelines and benchmarks as to when it is time to pull out.
It's always 'just a little more time', while hundreds of Iraqis and our soldiers continue to die and the Iraqi parliment collapses. I honestly think it is now about bruised egos and not wanting to hurt people's own pride (aka the 'retreat' rhetoric), while the deathtoll continues to climb. I am truly sickened by those in this thread who are basically writing this horrendous attack off as just a political ploy by al qaeda to sway U.S. public opinion, as if that makes this incident forgettable in the larger scheme of things. This next vote coming up is a major test, in my opinion, on whether or not the Democrats have any backbone left. Whoever votes to continue funding this war without a set pull-out date next month will never get a vote from me if ever I get a chance to vote for them for any office. As for the people who cry over the people who will die once we pull out, I say lay the blame for every single fucking death on every person who voted to engage in this horrible war in the first place. I absolutely will take none of the blame for a situation I never supported in the first place, and I seriously take issue with those who argue that we should stay in Iraq just because of the bloodbath that will ensue (as if the past four years have been a fucking walk in the park). | ||||
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08-15-2007, 06:52 PM
| #37 | ||||
| Banned - Self Imposed Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| when the time is right? what qualifications have to be met? When will the interests of our troops be met, what criteria? And for the Iraqis? What about a pull-out date of 6 months, but it's up to the president to actually set the time frame and everything? 6 more months of surging, then we start drawing down until we have virtually no forces left in Iraq, just a reaction force in Kuwait and our Air Force flying over Iraq...much like the Clinton years...however, if something odd pops up, Bush can simply state he needs some more time before he starts with the withdrawal...it'd be in his power, so what would be so horrible about that? "putting words in your mouth" well maybe we're all just unable to understand what exactly your position is when you thump into a thread and go "I support doing something when the time is right"...  as opposed to the people who say "I support doing something when the time is wrong"  "I don't like the Republicans now and think they should lose to the Democrats, also, note, I don't like the Democratic candidates or their party" C'mon, the White House has just called you, and you are to lay out a plan for Iraq, criteria to be met, troops numbers to be adjusted as certain events happen, what to do after those initial events happen, etc etc...the big plan for Iraq...short and long term, what would you tell them...remember, thousands of American lives are on the line here, we need decisions not truisms | ||||
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08-15-2007, 06:53 PM
| #38 |
