Worst attack of the Occupation, 250+ Iraqis killed in one town

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Are you fucking kidding me?

We eliminated the thing that kept these sects in check. We are directly responsible for the sectarian violence and it wasn't planned for by the leadership. Not many people on either side of the aisle dispute this.

I see. The fact that psychopaths want to kill each other is our fault.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Turn the whole middle east into glass huh?

Yep. That's exactly what I said.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

You honestly think anyone would give AQ a safe haven years after we've left?

The Kurds hate them, the Shia hate them...and the Sunnis have realized they're more trouble than they're worth...AQ has blood feuds with basically every faction in Iraq

Then why are they giving them safe haven now?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Then why are they giving them safe haven now?

Who exactly is giving AQ safe haven?

Gen. Petraeus and Bush have told us the Sunnis have turned on the Al Qaeda

The Shia hate them, AQ thinks they are all heretics

The Kurds hate them as they've teamed up with Sunnis in the past to pressure Kurds out of Mosul

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Then why are they giving them safe haven now?

They aren't?

[Joe_Cool]

And yet al qaeda is still there and still making trouble. Go figure.

Everybody hates them now and they're still there.
So what exactly leads you to believe that they'll suddenly be gone when we leave? The fact that everybody hates them? That's the case now and they're still around, and when we leave, the only thing that will change is that they'll have LESS opposition. Obviously a great reason for them to pack up and leave.

You both gave exactly the answer I expected.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

And yet al qaeda is still there and still making trouble. Go figure.

Everybody hates them now and they're still there.
So what exactly leads you to believe that they'll suddenly be gone when we leave? The fact that everybody hates them? That's the case now and they're still around, and when we leave, the only thing that will change is that they'll have LESS opposition. Obviously a great reason for them to pack up and leave.

You both gave exactly the answer I expected.

Iraqis hate Al Qaeda more than American soldiers do...our departure will have very little to do with what opposition they face...infact it'll probably increase it...and without the US, they'll have more incentive to quit while the foreigners go back to their own country

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

And yet al qaeda is still there and still making trouble. Go figure.

Everybody hates them now and they're still there.
So what exactly leads you to believe that they'll suddenly be gone when we leave? The fact that everybody hates them? That's the case now and they're still around, and when we leave, the only thing that will change is that they'll have LESS opposition. Obviously a great reason for them to pack up and leave.

You both gave exactly the answer I expected.

They weren't there before we came so why exactly would they stay?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

They weren't there before we came so why exactly would they stay?

Because now there is a fragile government in place in which they could claim power.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Because now there is a fragile government in place in which they could claim power.

Good thing there are solid governments in the area like Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority, and a Saudi Arabia with a stunted economy and 30%+ unemployment rate

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Good thing there are solid governments in the area like Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority, and a Saudi Arabia with a stunted economy and 30%+ unemployment rate

The power groups are already claimed in those areas...

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The power groups are already claimed in those areas...

Oh yeah, that's why the Shia Hezbollah was dumbfounded when a radical Sunni insurgent group took a foothold, and they were total amateurs...imagine if the real AQ came in...there are lots of Sunnis in Lebanon who don't have their own protection force

And the Palestinian Authority is in a civil war where Hamas is seeking aid from anyone who will give it

And the vacuum of power created by the faultering monarchy in Saudi Arabia is not being filled by anyone...

And this doesn't mention Afghanistan, Sudan, Pakistan, Somalia...

AQ only cares about Iraq because it's easier to kill Americans there than Afghanistan, there's nothing nice about a country where 80% of the country and its population is off-limits because they despise you nomatter what you do, and the remaining 20% of oil-less desert has turned on you

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

AQ only cares about Iraq because it's easier to kill Americans there than Afghanistan, there's nothing nice about a country where 80% of the country and its population is off-limits because they despise you nomatter what you do, and the remaining 20% of oil-less desert has turned on you

This might be true if it weren't for the fact that Al Qaeda is targeting Muslims more than they're targeting Americans. Al Qaeda is our primary target in Iraq, but we aren't necessarily theirs.

They're attacking Muslims, political groups and the infrastructure. The other countries you mentioned albeit are unstable have clearly defined militant groups that would wipe the floor with Al Qaeda. The only chance Al Qaeda has to obtaining a region like Hezbollah has in Palestine is within the unstable boundaries of Iraq.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

This might be true if it weren't for the fact that Al Qaeda is targeting Muslims more than they're targeting Americans. Al Qaeda is our primary target in Iraq, but we aren't necessarily theirs.

They're attacking Muslims, political groups and the infrastructure. The other countries you mentioned albeit are unstable have clearly defined militant groups that would wipe the floor with Al Qaeda. The only chance Al Qaeda has to obtaining a region like Hezbollah has in Palestine is within the unstable boundaries of Iraq.

You mean Hezbollah in Lebanon...anyway

AQ was trying to spark sectarian akwardness with sectarian strife, it worked, however, as much as Bush has fucked up Iraq, AQI (AQ in Iraq) has fucked up Iraq too, they overplayed their hand because in 2004 they actually did have a shot at getting a safe haven in Iraq for atleast a few years, but they shot themselves in the foot by assaulting/killing merchants for not properly seperating fruits

Now, they are stuck in spot where they have to show Iraqis that treason against AQ is not tolerated...they all signed on with AQ when they were helping starving insurgent groups with foreign money, but now they've reneged and if AQ takes it lying down they'll never be able to strike at Americans in Iraq again and actually the entire AQ name will be tarnished World Wide, even by extremists who will call them cowards

So, the most important thing is to punish Sunnis who turned against them so in the future, muslims won't cross them...think long term

AQ knows that Iraq is so unstable, and they've contribued to that enough, that it'll turn on the US regardless of what they do (Best case scenario is a strong government that allies with Iran...its sad and funny at the same time)

AQ's main goal under Zarqawi was to cause a civil war, mission accomplished...the Sunnis can't wait to start fighting JAM, which will cause the whole country to explode into flames...

So, with their main goal accomplished, they're attempting to flex their muscles at islamic tribal leaders from Algeria to Indonesia...AQI has built up enough of a fearsome reputation that they can slip into the backround without being called cowards, because as soon as they do, Sunnis will look for who else to fight, and that will overpower any news of AQ being inactive in Iraq

Just remember, AQ is thinking about 10-20 years down the road, we still think about 2-6 months down the road...Bush Legacy > American interests

[Nonphixion]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Yes, it's called reading the news. Our commanders on the ground have been saying they've received information that leads them to believe that attacks like this would escalate coming up to the progress report. As the article in the OP points out, this was expected.

It was expected that 4,000 lbs of TNT would be detonated and would kill 500 people in Iraq during the summer mid-peak of the Troop Surge?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Nonphixion

It was expected that 4,000 lbs of TNT would be detonated and would kill 500 people in Iraq during the summer mid-peak of the Troop Surge?

Please re-read my response

Our commanders on the ground have been saying they've received information that leads them to believe that attacks like this would escalate coming up to the progress report