Thousands of Marines face involuntary recalls because of Iraqi Civil War - Page 7

DosEquis · 08-28-2006, 12:23 PM

FORT LEWIS, Wash. - An Army officer is recommending that a lieutenant who refused to serve in Iraq because he believes the war is illegal face trial, a Fort Lewis spokesman said.

1st Lt. Ehren Watada, 28, of Honolulu, has been charged with missing troop movement, conduct unbecoming an officer and contempt toward officials. He refused to deploy to Iraq on June 22 with his Fort Lewis-based unit.

A report by the investigating officer, Lt. Col. Mark Keith, “does recommend that the case be tried by general court-martial,” J.C. Mathews, a civilian spokesman at the Army base south of Seattle, said late Thursday.
Keith’s report was expected to be released Friday.

The Army laid out its case against Watada at a hearing last week, showing video footage of the lieutenant calling the war illegal.

Keith could recommend anything from dismissal of the charges to a general court-martial.

His recommendation goes to Watada’s brigade commander, Col. Cynthia Murphy, and to Lt. Gen. James Dubik, Fort Lewis’ commander, who has the final say on whether Watada should stand trial, Mathews said.

If convicted, Watada could face seven years in prison and dishonorable discharge.

Mathews said there is no timetable for Dubik’s decision.

Watada’s lawyer, Eric Seitz, said he was not surprised by the recommendation.

“We always believed that when they went so far as to convene an Article 32 hearing that they had already made a decision to proceed,” he said in a telephone interview. An Article 32 hearing is similar to a grand jury proceeding.

Seitz, who has seen Keith’s report, said he expects to learn Dubik’s decision in 10 to 14 days.

Watada could not immediately be reached for comment.

IminWonderland · 08-28-2006, 12:26 PM

I think it's great that he stood up for his convictions, and is willing to sacrifice himself to jail for it.

That's a true patriot right there.

DosEquis · 08-28-2006, 12:28 PM

For him worst case....getting out of prison at 35 years old and living the rest of your life > dying for a useless cause imho.

JaJae · 08-28-2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I think it's great that he stood up for his convictions, and is willing to sacrifice himself to jail for it.

That's a true patriot right there.

He's not even close to a Patriot. His parents have been war protestors from the start, including himself. He joined the military long AFTER we invaded Iraq and went to OCS (Officer Candidate School). As soon as he gets out, he waits for his diployment to Iraq and then whores himself to the media.

He's Cindy Sheehan to the next level. He only joined the military so he could protest. He deserves to go to jail. He's waisted tens of thousands of tax payer dollars for a publicity stunt.

IminWonderland · 08-28-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

He's not even close to a Patriot. His parents have been war protestors from the start, including himself. He joined the military long AFTER we invaded Iraq and went to OCS (Officer Candidate School). As soon as he gets out, he waits for his diployment to Iraq and then whores himself to the media.

He's Cindy Sheehan to the next level. He only joined the military so he could protest. He deserves to go to jail. He's waisted tens of thousands of tax payer dollars for a publicity stunt.

I still think that's patriotic. He is a citizen, and he is within his right to do what he did. And his tens of thousands of wasted dollars do not compare in the cost of the war, so that's a drop in the bucket arguement to me.

I love it that he "whores himself to the media" he's the "Cindy Sheehan to the next level"...but any other soldier who just does what he's told is the true patriot. I suppose that's ok, it's just not the world I want to live in.

JaJae · 08-28-2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

He is a citizen, and he is within his right to do what he did.

No he doesn't. Which is why he should go to jail.

IminWonderland · 08-28-2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

No he doesn't. Which is why he should go to jail.

As a citizen, he can join the armed forces. He can get training. Deciding to not deploy to Iraq is the crime he is being charged with. And he will go to jail for that. And that will make a statement. He has a right as a citizen, to make that statement, although he will be paying for it with years of his life.

He has that right, and I'm all for him having that right.

7960 · 08-28-2006, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I still think that's patriotic. He is a citizen, and he is within his right to do what he did.

I have no problem with him doing this. But I also have no problem putting him in jail for a bunch of years for it, either

. If he's a *true* patriot he'll sit quietly in jail for 7 years if he's convicted (which he will be, because he did it).

Thorgrim · 08-28-2006, 02:42 PM

Wait wait, what is exactly wrong with civil disobedience? Are we condemning MLK, too?

A real "non-patriot" who "wasted tax payer dollars" would be someone who went to Iraq and just did crap jobs and never performed right and just did it as a way to get college tuition, while doing the bare minimum not to get throw out

thomez · 08-28-2006, 02:45 PM

I bet he'll feel stupid when nobody gives a fuck in about 3 or 4 weeks

7960 · 08-28-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Wait wait, what is exactly wrong with civil disobedience? Are we condemning MLK, too?

Some of what he did got him sent to jail, too.

Maybe in 30 or 40 years this Wasabi guy will be a hero, but for now he has to go to jail. Buh-byeeee

Thorgrim · 08-28-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

I bet he'll feel stupid when nobody gives a fuck in about 3 or 4 weeks

Emerson walked by the jail one day and found Thoreau inside for refusal to pay tax that would pay for war. Emerson asked, “Henry, what are you doing in there?!” The author of Walden looked at the great transcendental essayist and asked, “No, Waldo, the question is, what are you doing out there?”

IminWonderland · 08-28-2006, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Emerson walked by the jail one day and found Thoreau inside for refusal to pay tax that would pay for war. Emerson asked, “Henry, what are you doing in there?!” The author of Walden looked at the great transcendental essayist and asked, “No, Waldo, the question is, what are you doing out there?”

I just read both of them this past Summer.

And Thoreau has a really great point.

Thorgrim · 08-28-2006, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Some of what he did got him sent to jail, too.

Maybe in 30 or 40 years this Wasabi guy will be a hero, but for now he has to go to jail. Buh-byeeee

Yes, but after he serves his time...he is square with everyone, he took his punishment...MLK didn't make any jail breaks, and he did things he knew would land him in prison...his boycott wasted tax payer money spent to help the southern transporation system

MLK wasn't even liked by white anti-segregationalists in many instances, sometimes even black ones...his popularity came many years later

If thats what he wants, we should respect his wishes...none of us can judge whether he will be regarded as a hero or nothing...but if I had to guess, he will be shown great respect in history

thomez · 08-28-2006, 02:52 PM

Henry didn't sign a contractual agreement to pay taxes only so that he could refuse and get sent to jail

Thorgrim · 08-28-2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

Henry didn't sign a contractual agreement to pay taxes only so that he could refuse and get sent to jail

Don't give me that "sign a contract" BS, try going to a restaurant and leaving without paying the bill saying "I never signed anything" see where that gets you

the dumbest argument ever...

everyone is a part of the US social contract made when you were given citizenship status, he had a duty to pay his taxes just like that soldier had a duty to follow orders

thomez · 08-28-2006, 03:00 PM

MLK and Mr. Henry broke laws they disagreed with in the hope they could change something or whatever.

That's totally different than not paying your tab or SIGNING UP FOR THE MILITARY FOR THE PURPOSE OF GRANDSTANDING.

If you can't see the difference, please log off now for the good of mankind.

7960 · 08-28-2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Yes, but after he serves his time...he is square with everyone, he took his punishment...MLK didn't make any jail breaks, and he did things he knew would land him in prison...his boycott wasted tax payer money spent to help the southern transporation system

MLK wasn't even liked by white anti-segregationalists in many instances, sometimes even black ones...his popularity came many years later

Are we disagreeing? I don't think we are. This guy joined and failed to show and now is going to jail... I'm ok with that.

If thats what he wants, we should respect his wishes...none of us can judge whether he will be regarded as a hero or nothing...but if I had to guess, he will be shown great respect in history

Again, didn't I say this? Only history can judge him..........I disgree with you because I think people will either completely forget who this asshat was but that's just us having different opinions. Tell you what. If I remember his name in 20 years I'll buy you a drink, OK?

Ardentfrost · 08-28-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by thomez

MLK and Mr. Henry broke laws they disagreed with in the hope they could change something or whatever.

That's totally different than not paying your tab or SIGNING UP FOR THE MILITARY FOR THE PURPOSE OF GRANDSTANDING.

If you can't see the difference, please log off now for the good of mankind.

Did he join for the sole purpose of doing this?

that's not cool if that's true. If he's just some military guy who has served, and is now saying that going to fight this war would be against the oath he took, then that's something different.