"We're kickin ass" in Iraq - Page 2

Donkey® · 09-08-2007, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

does this thread have a point?

I am sorry it wasn't obvious to you. I'll explain. The president, this administration and many people that lean right are delusional enough to spout rhetoric like this even though it's so OBVIOUSLY not correct. Playing whack a mole isn't kicking ass. Slinking in and out of a country in the middle of the night is not kicking ass. When Bush doesn't have to hide his flight plans until the last second. Fly in during the dark of night and land in the middle of one of the largest military bases in the world (and never leave it). THEN he can proclaim any sort of victory or any sort of ass kicking. Our asses have been COMPLETELY kicked in this Iraq debacle. Wasted lives. Wasted money. We've lost credibility. We've lost respect. We've lost clout. There is absolutely NOTHING gained by this Iraq failure. NOTHING. That's the point of this thread. So you and others can come up with bullshit spin and tag lines about how we "hate success" and "applaud failure" and how we want the troops to die. It doesn't hide the fucking fact there is not ONE SINGLE THING GAINED by our actions in Iraq.

Scrum · 09-08-2007, 09:41 PM

Donkey has clearly forgotten about the rape rooms.

David Octavius · 09-09-2007, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Well, some good news you might not want to hear. Combat deaths in Iraq have decreased 50% in the last 3 months.

What does that have to do with us "kicking ass" over there? Kicking ass implies we are winning. Now what that is I don't think most people really know but I would venture to guess that a win would be a stable Iraq, and an overall weakened terrorist threat.

Now what if there are zero combat deaths - that would be an awesome thing, it would be like we are not there - but if Iraq is still instable due to the violence and inability for the government to take control and terror organizations remain strong or get stronger, wouldn't that mean we still failed since we achieved neither objective we started out with?

Well the government still can't get their shit together and according to our own intelligence offices, AQ and others are getting stronger, not weaker. So I fail to see how we are "kicking ass"

Therefore, the deaths or non-deaths of our troops is not a factor when determining how well or not well are doing it when viewed through the cold eye of objectivity - it is about whether are achieving or can achieve our objectives and it hasn't happened.

DosEquis · 09-09-2007, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I am sorry it wasn't obvious to you. I'll explain. The president, this administration and many people that lean right are delusional enough to spout rhetoric like this even though it's so OBVIOUSLY not correct. Playing whack a mole isn't kicking ass. Slinking in and out of a country in the middle of the night is not kicking ass. When Bush doesn't have to hide his flight plans until the last second. Fly in during the dark of night and land in the middle of one of the largest military bases in the world (and never leave it). THEN he can proclaim any sort of victory or any sort of ass kicking. Our asses have been COMPLETELY kicked in this Iraq debacle. Wasted lives. Wasted money. We've lost credibility. We've lost respect. We've lost clout. There is absolutely NOTHING gained by this Iraq failure. NOTHING. That's the point of this thread. So you and others can come up with bullshit spin and tag lines about how we "hate success" and "applaud failure" and how we want the troops to die. It doesn't hide the fucking fact there is not ONE SINGLE THING GAINED by our actions in Iraq.

Not to mention, and I might be nit picking at this point, but "we're kicking ass" or other things like "lets roll" are not statements the president of the united states should be making ..in public at least. Its very unprofessional to make statements like that, by a person who should be one of the most professional people in the world.

RMNIXON · 09-09-2007, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I am sorry it wasn't obvious to you. I'll explain. The president, this administration and many people that lean right are delusional enough to spout rhetoric like this even though it's so OBVIOUSLY not correct. Playing whack a mole isn't kicking ass. Slinking in and out of a country in the middle of the night is not kicking ass. When Bush doesn't have to hide his flight plans until the last second. Fly in during the dark of night and land in the middle of one of the largest military bases in the world (and never leave it). THEN he can proclaim any sort of victory or any sort of ass kicking. Our asses have been COMPLETELY kicked in this Iraq debacle. Wasted lives. Wasted money. We've lost credibility. We've lost respect. We've lost clout. There is absolutely NOTHING gained by this Iraq failure. NOTHING. That's the point of this thread. So you and others can come up with bullshit spin and tag lines about how we "hate success" and "applaud failure" and how we want the troops to die. It doesn't hide the fucking fact there is not ONE SINGLE THING GAINED by our actions in Iraq.

September is turning into a real bitch for the Donkey party. I can tell when rhetoric gets this loud. All we need is some NO WMD posters and the hysteria is complete.

I would never suggest anyone on the board wants troops to die. If that is something I missed I will denouce such a post. But it is clear some people have an irrational fear of success in Iraq and it is a learning experiance to watch that happen.

RMNIXON · 09-09-2007, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Donkey has clearly forgotten about the rape rooms.

Yes, obviously the actions of a few make nothing of the work of many thousands of Americans in Iraq. Do you have any small sense of decency in you?

DosEquis · 09-09-2007, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

September is turning into a real bitch for the Donkey party. I can tell when rhetoric gets this loud. All we need is some NO WMD posters and the hysteria is complete.

I would never suggest anyone on the board wants troops to die. If that is something I missed I will denouce such a post. But it is clear some people have an irrational fear of success in Iraq and it is a learning experiance to watch that happen.

Thats bullshit man. It is not a fear of success, but a understanding the reality of the situation there. Success in its current definition is a stable government in Iraq that can sustain itself. With our current situation, current strategy, and the current progress of the elected leaders in Iraq, that is simply not going to happen. Pointing out these failures is to reinforce and part of recognizing this and demanding a change in policy whether it be withdrawing completely or changing the strategy to get this political progress to happen...whatever. If anyone wants there to be continued failure simply because it makes an election potentially go their way...it would be disgusting basically.

RMNIXON · 09-10-2007, 05:02 PM

Sorry, but just trolling the internet for more stories of the latest violence or protest is not "understanding the reality" there. Nor is this smear campaign begun in the New York Times today by moveon.org:

Petraeus and the Presidential Candidates - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

Perhaps you don't support them? But the board has people who get their news and talking points from sites like Moveon and KOS and Crooks and Liars. I don't see such activity as a good way to be reasonable in debate about this subject. The motives of these organizations are clear even if they are not the same as yours.

Nonphixion · 09-10-2007, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Sorry, but just trolling the internet for more stories of the latest violence or protest is not "understanding the reality" there. Nor is this smear campaign begun in the New York Times today by moveon.org:

Petraeus and the Presidential Candidates - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

Perhaps you don't support them? But the board has people who get their news and talking points from sites like Moveon and KOS and Crooks and Liars. I don't see such activity as a good way to be reasonable in debate about this subject. The motives of these organizations are clear even if they are not the same as yours.

Umm... hate to break the egg over your head but talking points are something almost exclusively used by the facetious right-wingers. Not by liberals who generally report facts with objectivity.
The right-wing like O'Reilly and FOX news in general only say things that will rally the public -- things that are relatively untrue.
Even after the Repub. debates they were even so brazen to label their post-debate coverage or "reporting" (if you could even call it that)... was called THE SPIN ROOM.

tbone · 09-11-2007, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Well, some good news you might not want to hear. Combat deaths in Iraq have decreased 50% in the last 3 months.

Can we get a link on this. And can we compare this to total deaths as well? I'm glad less American soldiers are dying, but shifting those deaths to Iraqi civilians and security forces is not a success, it's simply standing still.