Iraq is now like Korea.

[P/N]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

We won't hear people like P/N talking about that though. Don't question authority! If the general says everything is okay, then it must be!

Did you listen to what the general said and the statistics to back his statements up? These are FACTS and they are right there for all to see. Of course, we all know that you weren't going to believe what he said unless it agreed with your opinion. Don't be afraid to let facts get in the way of your feelings, it's OK to say that you were wrong, this is a forgiving nation after all.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by P/N

Did you listen to what the general said and the statistics to back his statements up? These are FACTS and they are right there for all to see. Of course, we all know that you weren't going to believe what he said unless it agreed with your opinion. Don't be afraid to let facts get in the way of your feelings, it's OK to say that you were wrong, this is a forgiving nation after all.

There's a lot more facts than he's telling though. There's always more than one way to interpret a situation in politics and there's nothing wrong with that as long as you can back it up with your own facts. Which the Democrats have been doing. They're selecting their facts to back up their view and Petraeus is selecting his facts to back up his view.

I think what's more telling here though is the response to everything, especially with the attacks against Rudy for coming to the defense of Petraeus with the moveon.org/NY Times scandal. You would every person running for president, Republican AND Democrat should come out and say something on the allegations of moveon.org calling out Petraeus for betrayal. The loose inference to betrayal by a military general is treason. This is no light allegation and was made by a huge political organization and plastered for pennies on the dollar in the NY Times.

Every candidate should have an opinion on this.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I would have to agree with you there. There's a lot of information, a lot of which Hillary Clinton spoke directly to Patraeus to use to back up their opinion. But rather than making an informative ad, they went with slander, and now the biggest story is the discount they got to slander a US General.

It wasn't a smart move considering most Americans have a positive view of Patraeus. They're only hurting their argument by slandering him. They should have focused their article more on their points. It would have done a lot more justice to their cause.

Exactly. That is why I was so pissed off at Moveon...they basically ruined their message by that quaint little rhyme they made up. They had valid points, but now all people are hearing is this betrayal crap. They handed this to the Republicans on a platter. Any honest debate on Iraq would make the GOP come off as the loser, but when you spin the situation into one of criticizing the military, you deflect from the real issue.

It was a stupid mistake on Moveon's part, and I hope they learn to be more careful next time. I also like how the conservative talking heads are screaming about how this will follow the Democratic nominee up until November of 08. If this shit takes more importance than Iraq, then we are in a truly sad state of affairs.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by P/N

Did you listen to what the general said and the statistics to back his statements up? These are FACTS and they are right there for all to see. Of course, we all know that you weren't going to believe what he said unless it agreed with your opinion. Don't be afraid to let facts get in the way of your feelings, it's OK to say that you were wrong, this is a forgiving nation after all.

Apparently you didn't read what I said...because I specifically talked about one instance in which the statistics he used were twisted to the pro-war's benefit.

You have a lot of nerve to talk about facts when you ignore a flat-out misrepresentation that I just showed you concerning the General's 'facts'.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

It was a stupid mistake on Moveon's part, and I hope they learn to be more careful next time. I also like how the conservative talking heads are screaming about how this will follow the Democratic nominee up until November of 08. If this shit takes more importance than Iraq, then we are in a truly sad state of affairs.

The Democratic nominee has nothing to do with an ad placed by moveon.org. Associating the two is wrong. However, it would be nice to hear from a Democrat on this issue. Their staying silent when a US general is being called out for betrayal for the advancement of their party might hurt them with the independents.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The Democratic nominee has nothing to do with an ad placed by moveon.org. Associating the two is wrong. However, it would be nice to hear from a Democrat on this issue. Their staying silent when a US general is being called out for betrayal for the advancement of their party might hurt them with the independents.

Agreed.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

The Democratic nominee has nothing to do with an ad placed by moveon.org. Associating the two is wrong. However, it would be nice to hear from a Democrat on this issue. Their staying silent when a US general is being called out for betrayal for the advancement of their party might hurt them with the independents.

I agree, but I don't think that's going to happen.
They are all so afraid of rocking the boat in any direction for fear of pulling a Dean.


It really reflects badly on our society when candidates try so hard to be popular, but totally unnoticed.

[Donkey®]

The war in Korea has been over for 30 or 40 years. We're still there. WWII has been over for 60 years and we're still there. We have no plans to remove ourselves from Iraq. It's pathetic really.