Ever wonder why we let Saudi Arabia get away with shit and get pissy at Iran? [PIC]

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

A foolish comment, reread the article if you want, it's clear there's other translators who agree.. focusing on one guy you disagree with to discredit the information on the whole doesn't fly for the 'does more than skim' crowd

Also, Cole is more than just a 'blogger' -- he has more expertise in middle eastern matters than anyone on this forum. Calling him one, as you do at pretty much every opportunity, is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to minimize his credentials and that expertise.. to paint him as some sort of racist nobody, but he's a professor with multiple degrees and is reasonably well respected on matters dealing with the middle east.. I'm sure he knows more farsi than anyone on this forum too.. but again, he's hardly the only source for this information.

He is a blogger He's mostly known for his anti-semitic and radical rantings on his blog. There are a lot of radical nut bloggers with advanced degrees. Doesn't mean we should trust what they say when there's more compelling reasons not to.

It's amazing how the education argument is coming up here. He's smarter than you therefore don't attempt to discredit him. I wonder if that argument works with AGW global warming...

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

Being aimed at the Israeli government and threatening to attack them are two different things. His comments were obviously about the regime in Israel, who disputes that?

If you dont see his comments as a threat then we'll never agree on this so I'm not going to try to convince you of it anymore. Instead see my post about handling them going forward.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

So if he is a threat to the region how do you propose we handle it? When does the US step in? Do we wait for a nuclear device to go off? Do we wait until the threats become more immenent and ominous? I definately think acting now would be premature, but given this rhetoric coming from the government it reminds me a lot of Nazi Germany. Which begs the question how do we handle Iran going forward?

You're allowing a mischaracterization of his 'rhetoric' cloud your judgment by accepting that he was threatening some sort of genocide with those remarks, if you read the speech given and look at the evidence for context of the translation it becomes clear something else was said

That doesn't make this guy 'good' or justify other shit he's said and done, but certainly if we're going to dislike him, we should dislike him for stuff that actually happened

I don't think we need to step in militarily, and sanctions on oil or whatever will just radicalize another generation of Iranian's.. we've meddled in their affairs for over half a century, and look where it's gotten us

Rigorous diplomacy and cooperation where we have similar goals should be exhausted, unfortunately, Bush has made diplomacy a reward for countries who do what we want.. so there's probably not much chance of anything reasonable happening until the next Administration takes office.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

Being against the US overthrowing democratically elected governments makes you "not high caliber on the professionalism scale"?

I guess when the facts are clear, the best method to save face is to try to obfuscate the facts by attacking the sources

Click the website. When I click his website I do not find a credible source for information on the middle east...

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

You're allowing a mischaracterization of his 'rhetoric' cloud your judgment by accepting that he was threatening some sort of genocide with those remarks, if you read the speech given and look at the evidence for context of the translation it becomes clear something else was said

That doesn't make this guy 'good' or justify other shit he's said and done, but certainly if we're going to dislike him, we should dislike him for stuff that actually happened

I don't think we need to step in militarily, and sanctions on oil or whatever will just radicalize another generation of Iranian's.. we've meddled in their affairs for over half a century, and look where it's gotten us

Rigorous diplomacy and cooperation where we have similar goals should be exhausted, unfortunately, Bush has made diplomacy a reward for countries who do what we want.. so there's probably not much chance of anything reasonable happening until the next Administration takes office.

I agree our meddling in their affairs has led us to where we are today. Many MANY Iranians do not like their government and I firmly agree giving them a rallying point (aka against the USA) would be a bad thing. So instead do we help support a revolution with dollars from the inside or do we just let it run its course?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by JaJae

He is a blogger He's mostly known for his anti-semitic and radical rantings on his blog. There are a lot of radical nut bloggers with advanced degrees. Doesn't mean we should trust what they say when there's more compelling reasons not to.

It's amazing how the education argument is coming up here. He's smarter than you therefore don't attempt to discredit him. I wonder if that argument works with AGW global warming...

What a cheap attempt at tossing a red herring into the thread

He's a professor, and author, and a scholar on the middle east. You use blogger in some sort of derogatory manner to discredit his education, so people who don't know who he is and wont bother to check will think he's just some nutjob who doesn't have some sort of educational basis for what he says.. it's pretty sad.

Discredit him if you want, but do it based on the facts of what he said for a given situation, instead of using your bias against his politics as some sort of 'catch-all' reasoning to say he's not credible.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

If you dont see his comments as a threat then we'll never agree on this so I'm not going to try to convince you of it anymore. Instead see my post about handling them going forward.

His comments obviously weren't a threat.. If you aren't going to read the facts you certainly aren't going to be able to convince me

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

What a cheap attempt at tossing a red herring into the thread

He's a professor, and author, and a scholar on the middle east. You use blogger in some sort of derogatory manner to discredit his education, so people who don't know who he is and wont bother to check will think he's just some nutjob who doesn't have some sort of educational basis for what he says.. it's pretty sad.

Discredit him if you want, but do it based on the facts of what he said for a given situation, instead of using your bias against his politics as some sort of 'catch-all' reasoning to say he's not credible.

I believe the comments were made on his blog. If Rush Limbaugh had an advanced degree would he suddenly be a "scholar" and "author", when making fun of Michael J Fox's Terrets on the radio? He'd be known publicly for what he's known best by, a radio talk-show host.

Juan Cole a quack regardless of his education. As far as I'm aware there are more people professionally involved in Iraq-Iran relations who disagree with Cole than those who agree.

[motivez]

Hey look, another red herring. I'm going to get sick of fish.

But yes, if Rush was some kind of guy who had spent a large portion of his life studying the issues he talks about in an academic setting I'd certainly give them more weight.. if he insulted someone like he did Fox I'd still think it as reprehensible, there's no comparison here.

And all I've seen so far is a bunch of about how you dislike Cole or whatever source, little in the way of counter evidence from either you or 6speed.. if you'd care to provide a source we can debate the accuracy of such comments, though since I don't think either of us speak Farsi, it's unlikely we'll get anywhere.. but at least we could start discussing something besides your bias against Cole's politics

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

And all I've seen so far is a bunch of about how you dislike Cole or whatever source, little in the way of counter evidence from either you or 6speed.. if you'd care to provide a source we can debate the accuracy of such comments, though since I don't think either of us speak Farsi, it's unlikely we'll get anywhere.. but at least we could start discussing something besides your bias against Cole's politics

And all I've seen is a bunch of anti-semitic sources and propaganda website posted as evidence and the strong desire to believe the author's remarks.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

So if Israel said they were going to wipe Syria off the map you'd just laugh it off? Or is it only funny when it's a backwards-ass country like Iran that doesn't actually have the capability to carry out its threats?

I dont really care what they say. They could say whatever the hell they want. Let them talk about eating bacon while foot tapping a shia muslim when he is taking a shit halfway through easter while the stall faces east. I could give a flying shit less what they have to say. The region is full of drama whore extremists who have no value for human life. Those in the region need to stand up to these people and show them it will not be tolerated. No amount of american fire power can do that and fix it. Until they do that, i say we stop funding them, stop defending them, and just let them kill each other.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

But nah....Iran is the problem.

I thought it was Iraq.

I still find amusement in so many people saying "Let's get their oil" after we invaded (in personal commentary) only to have our gas prices sky rocket since then. I remember alot of people hoping that would solve that issue.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

Why would you feel threatened? These countries have no significant air force to deliver a bomb to us. These countries do not have the missile technology nor the guidence technology to develop an ICBM. They are decades away and tens of billions of dollars away from having a nuclear device that is a threat to us. If they used one in the near future they would simply be destroying themselves. The region is really very small. Iraq is the size of california. One bomb goes off in the region and the fall out affects the entire region. Syria, a friend of Iran, would be devistated if a bomb went off in Israel.

Maybe that threat of regional self destruction is what they need for the people of these countries to stand up and remove the extremist/fanatical leaders on there own.

Or maybe, we need to not have them at all.

Being able to blow up the world 50 times is not productive to anyone on this planet.

[Donkey®]

More "OMG IRAN HATES JEWS" bullshit. Again, if Iran has the largest Jewish population in middle east outside of Israel, why haven't they wiped out their own population? They do not believe the state of Israel is legal and should exist...ie, shouldn't be on the map. Flipping and twisting the statements around to fit your "Iran is the bad guy" premise is just as propagandist as their statements.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by motivez

And all I've seen so far is a bunch of about how you dislike Cole or whatever source, little in the way of counter evidence from either you or 6speed.. if you'd care to provide a source we can debate the accuracy of such comments, though since I don't think either of us speak Farsi, it's unlikely we'll get anywhere.. but at least we could start discussing something besides your bias against Cole's politics

Are you reading with your eyes closed? I saw, at least twice, links to Ahmadinejad's website, and the opinions of his own translators. Which you've deftly ignored.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

I thought it was Iraq.

OMG you're right! There can only ever be ONE problem!!!!

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

OMG you're right! There can only ever be ONE problem!!!!

The same logic used to invade Iraq, is used for other countries as well.

The same ideas about what it would mean to the country to invade Iraq are similar to the justifications of going into other Middle East Countries.

And Ardent, the reason why we don't go into Saudi Arabia, is because their Royal Family are best friends with our "Royal" Family.

Money. Money. Money. Money.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

And Ardent, the reason why we don't go into Saudi Arabia, is because their Royal Family are best friends with our "Royal" Family.

Money. Money. Money. Money.

Friendship doesn't mean anything... we were buddies with both Fidel Castro and Saddam.