MSNBC Live Vote: Should Bush be impeached?

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That begs the question, can a federal law legally defy the constitution?

The founders would have said no.

well it can.... until someone challenges it. Then it's up to the Supreme Court to strike it down.. or not.
While it is in force, it's binding as far as I know.

[WickedLou9]

Speaking of...

Bush: Strengthen eavesdropping law - Yahoo! News

President Bush said Wednesday that a law hastily passed in August to temporarily give the government more power to eavesdrop without warrants on foreign terror suspects must be made permanent and expanded.

Please someone stop him.

[P/N]

LMAO - all I see are liberals drooling over a poll on MSNBC.com. Did MoveOn,org not have a poll to quote from readily available? This poll is about as accurate as last year's Atlantic hurricane forecast.

PS I fully expect the negative reps on this post from the usual suspects, it's a given.

[SoFlaJDM]

Originally Posted by P/N

LMAO - all I see are liberals drooling over a poll on MSNBC.com. Did MoveOn,org not have a poll to quote from readily available? This poll is about as accurate as last year's Atlantic hurricane forecast.

PS I fully expect the negative reps on this post from the usual suspects, it's a given.

you really don't see anything wrong about those results? half a million votes and it's 89% yes... do you not gather ANYTHING from that?

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That begs the question, can a federal law legally defy the constitution?

The founders would have said no.

I don't think a law should defy the spirit of constitution in terms of protection of liberty but as we all know, the constitution of then hardly looks like the constitution of now..so any one who uses "what would the founders think?" is irrelevant since we are dealing with a different document (in so many ways) than the one drafted over 200 years ago

Not saying that is what you are doing, just making an observation.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by P/N

LMAO - all I see are liberals drooling over a poll on MSNBC.com. Did MoveOn,org not have a poll to quote from readily available? This poll is about as accurate as last year's Atlantic hurricane forecast.

PS I fully expect the negative reps on this post from the usual suspects, it's a given.

Name 5 good things he has done for this country that would keep me for voting "yes" to impeach?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

I don't think a law should defy the spirit of constitution in terms of protection of liberty but as we all know, the constitution of then hardly looks like the constitution of now..so any one who uses "what would the founders think?" is irrelevant since we are dealing with a different document (in so many ways) than the one drafted over 200 years ago

Not saying that is what you are doing, just making an observation.

Well, I don't think anything has changed in the constitution that says "laws can be made that defy this document," what I'm saying is that the constitution is SUPPOSED to be the law that binds our laws. Now, if people see it that way or not is a horse of a different color.

All I'm getting at is if congress makes a law that defies the constitution and the judicial system doesn't immediately strike it down, I still don't think the law if valid.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Well, I don't think anything has changed in the constitution that says "laws can be made that defy this document," what I'm saying is that the constitution is SUPPOSED to be the law that binds our laws. Now, if people see it that way or not is a horse of a different color.

All I'm getting at is if congress makes a law that defies the constitution and the judicial system doesn't immediately strike it down, I still don't think the law if valid.

Right and I agree with you

But though I think it's SUPPOSED to be that, I realize that it is the living generation that binds our laws irrespective of what the constitution says - if the living generation defines liberty, power and checks and balances differently, it will be reflective in the law, and it has been. I don't agree with it, but it is the reality of the situation

I'm glad liberty and the like is malleable, it's what progress and political equality is all about but the degree of it is a concern.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Unless we can prove unequivocally that Bush intentionally violated the constitution or abused his office that caused America to be less secure than No he should not be impeached.

Yes, that actual breaking of the Law and his Oath of Office does get in the way of poll data.

What about Impeaching the Congress? They just got an 11% approval rating. Another record low.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

Link: Live Vote: Should Bush be impeached? - Politics - MSNBC.com

89% yes with over 500,000 votes right now.

The latest Bush approval rating is 29% Reuters/Zogby

So does this reflect just a bit of bias with MSNBC Viewers?

[SoFlaJDM]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The latest Bush approval rating is 29% Reuters/Zogby

So does this reflect just a bit of bias with MSNBC Viewers?

or the 29% that still support bush don't have the internet

[P/N]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The latest Bush approval rating is 29% Reuters/Zogby

So does this reflect just a bit of bias with MSNBC Viewers?

My point exactly. And as predicted, I got a negative rep for my post.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by P/N

My point exactly. And as predicted, I got a negative rep for my post.

Trying to play up the sample size and source of study of these numbers, the fact does remain that people are largely unhappy with what is going on right now, and it's culpable in more ways than those numbers.

The Media has not always been so against this administration, and now it's getting to the point where everyday they have something negative about them, and at the same time, more and more people ask what has happened the past 7 years to this country.

[P/N]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

Trying to play up the sample size and source of study of these numbers, the fact does remain that people are largely unhappy with what is going on right now, and it's culpable in more ways than those numbers.

I'm not disagreeing that a majority of people are unhappy with Bush - I'm not happy with Bush, so I too am in the majority. But the fact that this poll is tainted due to it being on a far-left website does discredit it's results quite easily. No where near 89% of the American public wants to see Bush impeached and anyone claiming that these numbers are legitimate is being "intellectually dishonest" (to quote our moderator Motivez). Despite people's hatred for Bush, twisted polls like this one hold no water, period.

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

The Media has not always been so against this administration, and now it's getting to the point where everyday they have something negative about them, and at the same time, more and more people ask what has happened the past 7 years to this country.

I realize that the media has not always been so against this administration. Special interests have not only ruined Washington, they have also ruined the media. A majority of people in this country are like sheep - they swallow whatever is fed to them. And don't think I'm just picking on the left here because the right is guilty of this every bit as much as the left is. Anyone who gets their news from just one angle (FOX News or MSNBC or CNN, etc...) isn't getting the whole truth. To quote the "X-Files", 'the truth is out there'. It's just that our society has become so lazy that they don't go out and search for it. We want everything spoon fed to us here and now. It's all about instant gratification and instant information. Every major media outlet (FOX, CNN, MSNBC, NY Times, etc...) has their own angle and agenda and they won't simply present you with the facts, they put a slant on their reporting. I trust FOX News just about as much as I trust Dan Rather's fact checking. We need a legitimate news organization in this country and we just don't have it for the "sheep" to consume.

As far as "what has happened the past 7 years to this country", the same could be said at this same point in Clinton's administration. Fortunately for Clinton, he didn't take risks and go after terrorism. Unfortunately for him, his legacy will be marked as such. It's also unfortunate for us because had we done something sooner, we could have possibly prevented 9/11 from happening and snuffed out Al Qaeda before they grew to their pre-9/11 strength.

This country is falling apart, but I don't believe for one minute that it is "all Bush's fault". Both parties are to blame, but since special interests drive both parties, they are the true problem with this country. Neither party wants to do what's in the best interests of it's citizens, you know - the people they represent. If they did, the border would be closed, our ports and nuclear facilities would be safer and we would have either gone into Iraq with the manpower to have finished the job 3 years ago or not gone in at all.

Mistakes have been made and "we the people" have suffered for it. This upcoming Presidential election is the most important election since 2000 (I would hate to think how Gore would have handled 9/11). People need to decide what direction we want to go in. But we need to remain focused on terrorism and protecting ourselves from another attack within our own borders. If we elect the wrong people, we could see disaster that would be on a scale much greater than 9/11 and hurricane Katrina combined.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by P/N

Mistakes have been made and "we the people" have suffered for it. This upcoming Presidential election is the most important election since 2000 (I would hate to think how Gore would have handled 9/11). People need to decide what direction we want to go in. But we need to remain focused on terrorism and protecting ourselves from another attack within our own borders. If we elect the wrong people, we could see disaster that would be on a scale much greater than 9/11 and hurricane Katrina combined.

Word. God help us if a Republican wins.































Good job fearmongering.

[tbone]

I impeach Bush, Cheney, and Congress! All were/are at fault for a majority of the crap.

[P/N]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

Word. God help us if a Republican wins.

Partisan banter aside, God help us if the wrong Republican wins. And by the same token, God help us if the wrong Democrat wins. That's what you meant, right?

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

Good job fearmongering.

My day is now complete, I've been personally attacked by you.

Thanks

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by P/N

Partisan banter aside, God help us if the wrong Republican wins. And by the same token, God help us if the wrong Democrat wins. That's what you meant, right?



My day is now complete, I've been personally attacked by you.

Thanks

I'm honestly curious as to whether you feel there is a 'right' Democrat running at the moment.