MSNBC Live Vote: Should Bush be impeached?

[motivez]

Link: Live Vote: Should Bush be impeached? - Politics - MSNBC.com

89% yes with over 500,000 votes right now.

Do you guys think this is in any way representative of how the American people feel about impeaching Bush?

While I wish it did, I really don't think the numbers for impeachment are anywhere near that high.. since he can still get 30% of the population to support him in various polls, it would at best be 70/30.. but that's probably a bit high as well.

I personally think both him and Cheney should be impeached for things like denying due process to an American citizen, torture, illegal spying on American citizens, and so forth..

[Roonie]

impeach


Yes I think that is the majority viewpoint right now. Americans are sick of the lies and the Iraq war.

[Stylerod]

Only because he now wants to have socialized health care.

Impeach him. I want Chaney.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Motz, you're asking a different question than what is being asked in that poll.


Here are my answers:

Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment?
Yes.


Should George W. Bush be impeached?
No.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Motz, you're asking a different question than what is being asked in that poll.


Here are my answers:

Do you believe President Bush's actions justify impeachment?
Yes.


Should George W. Bush be impeached?
No.

I was about to say "."

But on second thought, I wouldn't mind setting a precedent that abusing your powers will have consequences. So as long as the impeachment is for the right things, I say yes.

[WickedLou9]

I'd be inclined to say yes based on his various violations of the constitiion. NOt because of Iraq though. With people being held without charges and without access to counsel and with the warrantless wiretaps.. That's enough. He took an oath to uphold the constitution. That is paramount to everything else, no exceptions. He conciously decided that he knew better and violated the constitution based on what he thought was best for the country. He doesn't have that authority. Because he failed to uphold his oath he should be removed from office.

[DosEquis]

I think he should be impeached just to expose how much bullshit he has really pulled in the name of security. I don't care if he goes to jail or gets fired, I just want the truth to come out and then let him decide if he should step down.

[David Octavius]

Unless we can prove unequivocally that Bush intentionally violated the constitution or abused his office that caused America to be less secure than No he should not be impeached.

Least we forget, there are other branches of government that either did nothing or went along as the shit hit the fan.

And there should not be any "take backs" in a representative democracy unless the above is violated, or else how will voters learn that how they vote is very important and requires careful consideration if they know they can always erase a mistake via impeachment or recalls?

[JaJae]

I don't think the poll is a good estimate of the national ideology. I think MSNBC caters to the left and the poll paints with that brush the same as if FoxNews had an open poll on their website. I would think that less than 1 in 10 Americans would approve of an impeachment of Bush considering something like 4 in 10 Americans approve of him.

I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing Bush impeached, but as the question stands I'd have to say I couldn't say yes or no. It would depend on the reason for impeachment. The Democrats have gotten so used to the idea of putting Republicans under the gun without evidence and questioning them until they catch them to be guilty of a non-related crime. I don't think that's the way our system is supposed to work...

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I don't think the poll is a good estimate of the national ideology. .

Of course it's not. It's a liberal wet dream. A quick google search shows the true number. Seems the real number is 30 something %.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Unless we can prove unequivocally that Bush intentionally violated the constitution or abused his office that caused America to be less secure than No he should not be impeached.

Least we forget, there are other branches of government that either did nothing or went along as the shit hit the fan.

And there should not be any "take backs" in a representative democracy unless the above is violated, or else how will voters learn that how they vote is very important and requires careful consideration if they know they can always erase a mistake via impeachment or recalls?

What about an open admission, IE the wiretaps?

[Publius]

Gross violation of the Constitution? Check.
Lying to the American public (either flat-out or by omission)? Check.
Crony-ism? Check.

He should've been impeached long ago.

[DosEquis]

The only thing that I can say against impeaching him is that his unconstitutional ideas, such as the patriot act, were passed by congress. We can't really impeach him for the warrantless spying when congress approved the thing. It would be at this point the judicial branch and the attorney general should step up and label that legislation unconstitutional and over ride the congress and the president. Some would call it a judicial power grab, but it would really be checks and balances at its finest. After all, they are supposed to be three equal branches of government. Its clear the legislative and executive over stepped their constitutional authority by passing legislation that violates the constitution.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

What about an open admission, IE the wiretaps?

The congress gave him a blank check to do what he did, they are just as responsible for what happened as the administration. They neglected their duty to represent our best interest and also check the President.

In many states if you participate in a robbery and one person in the gang shoots and kills a person, you are guilty of second degree murder despite not pulling the trigger or even wanting too. Because you participated in an illegal act, you are guilty of everything that happens during it.

How is it we are ok with that, but when we apply the same standards to politics all of a sudden it's different? If the administration did something illegal, it's because the congress (and thats Republicans AND democrats) allowed them too, and therefore just as guilty - if we impeach Bush, we should impeach them all

[SoFlaJDM]

if he didn't commit "high crimes and misdemeanors," then he's got nothing to worry about

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

The congress gave him a blank check to do what he did, they are just as responsible for what happened as the administration. They neglected their duty to represent our best interest and also check the President.

In many states if you participate in a robbery and one person in the gang shoots and kills a person, you are guilty of second degree murder despite not pulling the trigger or even wanting too. Because you participated in an illegal act, you are guilty of everything that happens during it.

How is it we are ok with that, but when we apply the same standards to politics all of a sudden it's different? If the administration did something illegal, it's because the congress (and thats Republicans AND democrats) allowed them too, and therefore just as guilty - if we impeach Bush, we should impeach them all

The program as it was enacted initially was secret and not approved by congress. Only recently was there legislation passed which temporarily allowed it ( for 6 months?) while they decide what to do.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

The program as it was enacted initially was secret and not approved by congress. Only recently was there legislation passed which temporarily allowed it ( for 6 months?) while they decide what to do.

The Patriot Act among other things the congress blindly approved allowed the administration to do that - by passing bills like that they are just as complicit as well as negligent of their duties and generally incompetent

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

The Patriot Act among other things the congress blindly approved allowed the administration to do that - by passing bills like that they are just as complicit as well as negligent of their duties and generally incompetent

That begs the question, can a federal law legally defy the constitution?

The founders would have said no.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That begs the question, can a federal law legally defy the constitution?

The founders would have said no.

As far as I know, the Fourteenth Amendment is what enabled the federal government to conduct investigations within the States, so the Founders would have never been presented with that question in the first place. That's not to say that I think you're wrong, though. The fact that they did not establish a national government is indicative of how they felt regarding federal intervention within the States' jurisdictions.

[Dumpy Dooby]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

I was about to say "."

But on second thought, I wouldn't mind setting a precedent that abusing your powers will have consequences. So as long as the impeachment is for the right things, I say yes.

I don't want him impeached because then Cheney would be President. I'd rather deal with a stupid tyrant than a smart one.