Hydrogen fueled car by BMW!?

Ardentfrost · 09-20-2007, 12:28 AM

How have I not heard about this til seeing a dang commercial about it?

BMW EfficientDynamics - Hydrogen - BMW North America

Basically, it's a car with a dual-fuel engine that can run on diesel or hydrogen (picking one with the "push of a button").

It's not yet for sale in the US because there aren't yet any hydrogen fueling stations, but in Germany there are 5 so far. It says 2 are scheduled for the US.

It's pretty cool. This is probably the next step to get us off t3h oil, we just need more clean backend power to make the hydrogen and more stations at which to buy hydrogen. I wonder what prices could be in comparison to gas once demand picks up.

WickedLou9 · 09-20-2007, 10:20 AM

Setup wind farms off shore. Split water at windfarms using electricity generated by said windfarm, Ship hydrogen back to shore.
Profit from free clean renewable energy.

avsp · 09-20-2007, 10:42 AM

clarkson et al predicted all manufactures having dual fuel cars with 10 years a few years back, ..., but IIRR they saw the dual as petrol/electric not petrol/hydrogen.

there must be a considerable efficiency loss in making/compressing the hydrogen compared to the electricity, ..., but then perhaps its compensated for by the advantage of the car driving about with a higher energy density per kg of battery/fueltank, ...,

Ardentfrost · 09-20-2007, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by avsp

clarkson et al predicted all manufactures having dual fuel cars with 10 years a few years back, ..., but IIRR they saw the dual as petrol/electric not petrol/hydrogen.

there must be a considerable efficiency loss in making/compressing the hydrogen compared to the electricity, ..., but then perhaps its compensated for by the advantage of the car driving about with a higher energy density per kg of battery/fueltank, ...,

Well, also batteries themselves have waste products and shit... when they're made, when they're disposed of, batteries are rather nasty things in those respects. Hydrogen is clean to make and clean to burn.

WickedLou9 · 09-20-2007, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Well, also batteries themselves have waste products and shit... when they're made, when they're disposed of, batteries are rather nasty things in those respects. Hydrogen is clean to make and clean to burn.

Maybe he was talking about a hydrogen fuel cell? I don't know if those are the same.

Diesel66 · 09-21-2007, 08:33 AM

because it is an entirely worthless invention that costs a shitload to make.

Ardentfrost · 09-21-2007, 09:06 AM

Emerging technologies are always expensive. Increased demand (which will spur an increase in supply) will eventually lower prices.

Unless you have some inside information about this that makes it cost prohibitive... if so, please share.

Diesel66 · 09-21-2007, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Emerging technologies are always expensive. Increased demand (which will spur an increase in supply) will eventually lower prices.

Unless you have some inside information about this that makes it cost prohibitive... if so, please share.

You are barking up the wrong tree, the car is worthless because it is using a source of energy that is expensive and more dirty to process then oil.

All the extra stuff added to the car is pure wasted money. Better off making a diesel-hybrid running off of WVO or biodiesel.

WickedLou9 · 09-21-2007, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

You are barking up the wrong tree, the car is worthless because it is using a source of energy that is expensive and more dirty to process then oil.

All the extra stuff added to the car is pure wasted money. Better off making a diesel-hybrid running off of WVO or biodiesel.

Hyrdogen can be generated by splitting water using wind power. CAN BE. I don't think they do it that way right now.

Ardentfrost · 09-21-2007, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Hyrdogen can be generated by splitting water using wind power. CAN BE. I don't think they do it that way right now.

Or solar power:

Sunlight Used To Produce Hydrogen From Water

Ardentfrost · 09-21-2007, 10:33 AM

Here's another link

Howstuffworks "How the Hydrogen Economy Works"

Of course, we're a LONG ways off from curbing our hydrocarbon dependence, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. The creation of hydrogen can be a clean process depending on how the electricity used to create the hydrogen is made. That's to be expected.

I'm wondering about stuff more along the lines of the efficiency of hydrogen as a fuel compared to gas.

Stylerod · 09-21-2007, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Setup wind farms off shore. Split water at windfarms using electricity generated by said windfarm, Ship hydrogen back to shore.
Profit from free clean renewable energy.

That would be great if Democrats would stop fighting it. IE Capewind.

WickedLou9 · 09-21-2007, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Or solar power:

Sunlight Used To Produce Hydrogen From Water

or a hamster running on a treadmill

Anything that will generate electricity.
The good thing about offshore wind farms is that you have very steady winds which can generate lots of power.. and wind power is very efficient. PLus by putting them off shore you don't use up any land in the process and you have a virtually limitless supply of fresh water to use for cooling and/or splitting into hydrogen.

WickedLou9 · 09-21-2007, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

That would be great if Democrats would stop fighting it. IE Capewind.

It's not really democrats.. it's the uber rich people on nantucket who don't want to see them, god forbid thier million dollar view has a wind turbine in it.

Stylerod · 09-21-2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

It's not really democrats.. it's the uber rich people on nantucket who don't want to see them, god forbid thier million dollar view has a wind turbine in it.

Well, the people want it.

A 2007 Opinion Research Corporation (ORC) survey of 600 state residents found that nine out of 10 Massachusetts residents (93 percent) agree that the state should be "a national leader in using cleaner and renewable energy on a large scale by moving ahead with offshore wind power" and other clean energy initiatives. This statement is supported by 78 percent of those who live on the Cape and on the Islands.[1]

So you are right that Democrats do want it. But the Big Cheese Democrat does not want it. And he even tried to add a section to a Coast Guard bill to make it illegal to build it. He is such a slimey fuck.

U.S. Senator Edward M Kennedy (D-Massachusetts) added a section to a Coast Guard reauthorization bill that would have banned any offshore wind project that is sited within 1.5 miles of a shipping channel, effectively killing the project.

WickedLou9 · 09-21-2007, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Well, the people want it.

So you are right that Democrats do want it. But the Big Cheese Democrat does not want it. And he even tried to add a section to a Coast Guard bill to make it illegal to build it. He is such a slimey fuck.

yeap. He is one of them. I think the Kennedy's have a mansion or something on the island.

Ardentfrost · 09-21-2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

yeap. He is one of them. I think the Kennedy's have a mansion or something on the island.

Oh yeah they do. Huge place.

But aren't the wind farms like, way off the coast. I mean, the view wouldn't even be unseemly, they'd look really small from the vantage of a house on the shore.

I don't know why the voters don't get rid of people like him.

WickedLou9 · 09-21-2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Oh yeah they do. Huge place.

But aren't the wind farms like, way off the coast. I mean, the view wouldn't even be unseemly, they'd look really small from the vantage of a house on the shore.

I don't know why the voters don't get rid of people like him.

beats me. Maybe they don't want to see them when they sail thier yachts in the area.