Scientists prove raptors had feathers.

[Simius]

Originally Posted by SVTman

the condom thing is right i haven't ever seen that either but then i dont think rabits just have sex to have sex either. and rabbits don't do what humans do in that we will use everything around us in an effort to keep ourselves going and make sure that everyone here is taken care of. rabits don't do that. we use everything and go somewhere else. i dont know what else to say.

Well. To be more accurate it was me wearing the condom... but considering what happened after I put it on I think it still counts for me seeing one rabbit use a condom.

Just admit that assuming populations grow exponentially without end doesn't match up with reality. So the fact there aren't a billion humans per square mile doesn't mean humans haven't been around for millions of years.

[SVTman]

you are right there but it also doesn't me that they have been either.

[Dylith]

Originally Posted by SVTman

these animals could simply be called members of the bird family just like an Ostrich.

Do you know what a dinosaur is? These creatures fit the definition of a dinosaur and also happened to have feathers. They were dinosaurs with feathers.

that is the way they were created

Then why don't they show up at any point in time before dinosaurs? Why do they simply not exist before dinosaurs came into the picture? Did God hold off and decide to "create" them later? Why don't we see Dinosaurs before the Triassic for that matter? The simple fact of the matter is, is that it is very easy for us to see that dinosaurs evolved into being at a certain point in time and existed for a certain period in time and then died out and gave way to new animals. T-rex did not live at the same time as Apatosaurus (no matter what your Land Before Time movie tells you). Likewise, a Stegosaurus never faught off a T-rex with its tail. All dinosaurs did not live together, they evolved from one another over time and eventually in isolation as Pangea broke up (hence why we see a much greater diversity of dinosaurs in the Cretaceous then we do in the Triassic). We have their ancestors. We have the intermediary fossils, it isn't hard to put two and two together.

and because they look similar doesnt mean that they came from eachother or anything like that.

Then tell me where they came from please. We have intermediary forms that are almost, but not quite dinosaurs like Lagosuchus and Eoraptor. Then we have early dinosaurs such as Herrerasaurus (almost a full dino) and the madagascar specimen.

These are just examples, there are lots of early species that we can see through fossil evidence to have evolved such as Coelophysis.

The minor details of everything might be a bit muddled, but the fact that evolution occured cannot really be debated.

The simple fact is that dinosaurs simply did not exist in the early Triassic. No dinosaur has ever been found in early Triassic rock or in older rock. Never.

i also read several articals about these birds on the interent and found that in all of them they made the claim that they were birds and that they had lots of similarities to birds but they never gave any of there proof of it. such as the bone similarity or skelital similartity they just said that they were relaited to birds. Someone saying that they look like a bird or an Ostrich does not constitute proof.

These aren't simply "birds" these are dinosaurs. Dinosaurs with feathers. Hence why it is believed that dinosaurs evolved into our other feathered friends, the aves. (that and the homologous anatomy that they share).

Technically, birds are dinosaurs.

My last little rant would be that you are all talking about this subject as though all of the stuff you have come up with is proof. Evolution is not a fact. It is still a THEORY. Am i the only one that knows that.

You are wrong. Evolution is fact. The notion that evolution is only a "scientific theory" and can thus be thrown out of the window is silly. Germ theory is only a "theory" yet a lot of modern medicine such as antibiotics have sprung out of it.

here is another intersting little fact that you might want to know. The entire population of the earth right now can fit i Jacksonville Florida. If we have been evolving for 3,000,000,000 years there would be about 179,000 people per square inch of land on earth. i don't think that works.

People haven't been evolving for 3 billion years. Our ancestors have, we have not.


You are also ignoring huge extinction periods that took place in history such as the one right before the dinosaurs (The Permian Triassic transition extinction) 96% of marine species and 70% of land species were killed off (they suddenly stop appearing in the fossil record and are never seen again). You also ingored other more well known mass extinction events such as the one which killed off most of the dinosaurs and killed off 50% of species in the world around 65 million years ago; thus allowing, for the first time, for mammals to become the dominant land vertebrates.




Evolution is simple fact, we can certainly sit here and debate about whether birds evolved from dinosaurs (as there is good evidence to suggest it), but the very existence of evolution cannot really be denied.

[Dylith]

Concerning dinosaurs and aves:

Dinobuzz: Dinosaur-Bird Relationships

[lew]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

um, wasn't it catholics that originally came up with the notion of a "sin"?????

There you go again thinking Catholics invented everything to do with Christianity.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

jesus lived in Greece? hmm. another amazing revelation!!!

The New Testament was written in Greek.

[SVTman]

Originally Posted by Dylith

Do you know what a dinosaur is? These creatures fit the definition of a dinosaur and also happened to have feathers. They were dinosaurs with feathers.



Then why don't they show up at any point in time before dinosaurs? Why do they simply not exist before dinosaurs came into the picture? Did God hold off and decide to "create" them later? Why don't we see Dinosaurs before the Triassic for that matter? The simple fact of the matter is, is that it is very easy for us to see that dinosaurs evolved into being at a certain point in time and existed for a certain period in time and then died out and gave way to new animals. T-rex did not live at the same time as Apatosaurus (no matter what your Land Before Time movie tells you). Likewise, a Stegosaurus never faught off a T-rex with its tail. All dinosaurs did not live together, they evolved from one another over time and eventually in isolation as Pangea broke up (hence why we see a much greater diversity of dinosaurs in the Cretaceous then we do in the Triassic). We have their ancestors. We have the intermediary fossils, it isn't hard to put two and two together.



Then tell me where they came from please. We have intermediary forms that are almost, but not quite dinosaurs like Lagosuchus and Eoraptor. Then we have early dinosaurs such as Herrerasaurus (almost a full dino) and the madagascar specimen.

These are just examples, there are lots of early species that we can see through fossil evidence to have evolved such as Coelophysis.

The minor details of everything might be a bit muddled, but the fact that evolution occured cannot really be debated.

The simple fact is that dinosaurs simply did not exist in the early Triassic. No dinosaur has ever been found in early Triassic rock or in older rock. Never.




These aren't simply "birds" these are dinosaurs. Dinosaurs with feathers. Hence why it is believed that dinosaurs evolved into our other feathered friends, the aves. (that and the homologous anatomy that they share).

Technically, birds are dinosaurs.



You are wrong. Evolution is fact. The notion that evolution is only a "scientific theory" and can thus be thrown out of the window is silly. Germ theory is only a "theory" yet a lot of modern medicine such as antibiotics have sprung out of it.



People haven't been evolving for 3 billion years. Our ancestors have, we have not.


You are also ignoring huge extinction periods that took place in history such as the one right before the dinosaurs (The Permian Triassic transition extinction) 96% of marine species and 70% of land species were killed off (they suddenly stop appearing in the fossil record and are never seen again). You also ingored other more well known mass extinction events such as the one which killed off most of the dinosaurs and killed off 50% of species in the world around 65 million years ago; thus allowing, for the first time, for mammals to become the dominant land vertebrates.




Evolution is simple fact, we can certainly sit here and debate about whether birds evolved from dinosaurs (as there is good evidence to suggest it), but the very existence of evolution cannot really be denied.

listen i dont deny that evolution exsists but not on the scale that you are talking. these examples are all in the same family of animal. which goes with the way God said it in the begining.

Genesis 1:21
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

he made all liveing things preduse young of its own kind. but never has anything jumped a species. this is fact.

[Simius]

Originally Posted by SVTman

listen i dont deny that evolution exsists but not on the scale that you are talking. these examples are all in the same family of animal. which goes with the way God said it in the begining.

Genesis 1:21
21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

he made all liveing things preduse young of its own kind. but never has anything jumped a species. this is fact.

Are all beetles the same kind? How old do you think the Earth is?

These may seem like unrelated questions, but just humor me.

[AVengeance]

Originally Posted by SVTman

listen i dont deny that evolution exsists but not on the scale that you are talking. these examples are all in the same family of animal. which goes with the way God said it in the begining.

The Bible uses the word "kind". Science has chosen the words Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, and Species. It is important to note that the definition of "species" has been, sorta, played with, to make evolution observable. So what you say below is false.

he made all liveing things preduse young of its own kind. but never has anything jumped a species. this is fact.

Two different species can mate and make a viable offspring. Two members of one species may not be able to mate at all without intelligent, uh, interference.

We have never seen nonliving pond goo come alive. We've never seen any living thing produce another kind of living thing. We have seen the limits of microevolution (horse racing comes to mind).

You're going to find that macroevolution supporters will say "not my problem' when you try to bring up the non-living stuff coming alive. That's not evolution, they say, but rather something else. When you try to go back farther than that, you get the same result. Evolution of living things does not concern itself with origins of the planets or the sun.

I talk to evolution supporters that don't even know whether a human fetus is scientifically "alive". Eventually, you just learn to give up. They're just as religious as you, and they have the advantage: their brand of indoctrination is taxpayer-funded.

On another note, don't try arguing against vestigal organs, either. The definition for that got changed, too. It used to mean "useless organ that was once a useful organ or structure in some predecessor". Now it doesn't have to be useless, it just has to be "not its original function", since more modern science discovers that vestiges are not vestiges after all. The term "original function" implies a creation (origin) point, but evolutionists conveniently ignore this for the sake of argument. Obviously, if everything came from pond goo, there are no "original" organs or structures of any kind. Just original goo. And in that regard, EVERYTHING is vestigal.

p.s.: your spelling is worse than Kent Hovind!

[Dispatcher]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Scientists: Velociraptor had feathers

• Story Highlights
• Dinosaur predator velociraptor had feathers, researchers report
• A velociraptor forearm found in Mongolia shows the presence of quill knobs
• Quill knobs are bumps on the bone where feathers anchor
• Dinosaurs are believed to be ancestors to modern birds

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Velociraptor, the terrifying predator made famous in the movie "Jurassic Park," appears to have had feathers in real life.

A close study of a velociraptor forearm found in Mongolia shows the presence of quill knobs, bumps on the bone where the feathers anchor, researchers report in Friday's edition of the journal Science.

Dinosaurs are believed to be ancestors to modern birds. Evidence of feathered dinosaurs has been found in recent years, and now velociraptor can be added to that list.


"Finding quill knobs on velociraptor ... means that it definitely had feathers. This is something we'd long suspected, but no one had been able to prove," Alan Turner, lead author on the study and a graduate student of paleontology at the American Museum of Natural History and at Columbia University in New York, said in a statement.


The velociraptor the researchers studied was about three feet tall and weighed about 30 pounds. The size of these animals was exaggerated in the movie.


It had short forelimbs, compared to a modern bird, the researchers said, indicating it would not have been able to fly, even though it had feathers.

The feathers may have been useful for display, to shield nests, for temperature control or to help it maneuver while running, they said.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/09/20/feathered.raptor.ap/index.html

I guess it must have been a bad time to be a caveman .

[Dispatcher]

Originally Posted by AVengeance

You're the one making the conclusions, not me. I wouldn't say that it WAS LOCALIZED, only that you can't show that it wasn't. I wouldn't say that it WAS AS ACCIDENTAL INBRED RECESSIVE TRAIT but rather that you're not showing it went further. And I'd be right every time. It is people like you that want to cling to unfounded conclusions based on highly limited evidence. Then, you take your own inability to not draw conclusions, and apply it to me? Damn, son. I know as a scientist that has done plenty of experiments AND currently as a computer programmer, that to come to a conclusion, you have to actually get all the way to the end- you can't assume anything. If you do, you'll likely (almost certainly) get the wrong results.
The heading says feathers. They found bumps on a bone. They then think that they evolved into birds. That's a bigger leap of faith than even that 'raptor could make.

It is people that have a strong belief in a mythical god that to cling to unfounded conclusions.

[kombayn]

Honestly, people just need to take the Absurdest approach when it comes to God. That being, it's too damn complicated of a subject to be worried about. We're talking about "God" here.

Absurdism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you look at the question, "There is inherent meaning in the universe (either intrinsic or from God)?" and the answer for an Absurdest like myself, "Maybe, but humans can never know it."