Columbia University and Free Speech?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

Since the UN is located here, we can't deny world leaders the opportunity to come for that purpose

I agree.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I'll give an example. Someone will say "What do you mean when you say that Israel should not be allowed to exist?" And he will say "Well, Israel should not be allowed to exist with their current policies. They just need to treat the Palestinians better and not kill innocent people blah, blah, blah." and the kids there will eat that shit up. It's EXACTLY what they want to hear! It might not be truthful, but God Damn it's what they thought all along and YippyKayea it's what he just said! He's not such a bad guy after all! He hates Israel and Bush just like we do! We are soul mates!!!!

how exactly do you know what wouldn't be truthful? Can you read minds?

Are you aware that a TV program was aired in Iran that was about the Holocaust and was a fair depiction of what happened? You might want to do some reading on the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

how exactly do you know what wouldn't be truthful? Can you read minds?

Are you aware that a TV program was aired in Iran that was about the Holocaust and was a fair depiction of what happened? You might want to do some reading on the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

Lets just ASSume he's going to lie about everything and complain about intellectuals wanting to hear points of view other than what Foxnews tells us.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

That is ASSuming you are going to are going to get honest answers back. The dean was talking about letting Hitler talk. The man was the Mother of All Liars. What do you expect to get out of a discussion with someone that you know will not give truthful answers to anything meaningful?

You talk about "understanding world leaders". It's such bullshit. They are going to say exactly what they think you want to hear. You are satisfied with that? What, exactly, do you think you learn from that?

I'll give an example. Someone will say "What do you mean when you say that Israel should not be allowed to exist?" And he will say "Well, Israel should not be allowed to exist with their current policies. They just need to treat the Palestinians better and not kill innocent people blah, blah, blah." and the kids there will eat that shit up. It's EXACTLY what they want to hear! It might not be truthful, but God Damn it's what they thought all along and YippyKayea it's what he just said! He's not such a bad guy after all! He hates Israel and Bush just like we do! We are soul mates!!!!

Let him say what he wants it gives the students and us a chance to judge him. They and we are intelligent enough not to be swayed by what he says, but let us see him face to face with his questioners. The biggest fear people have is of the unknown we need to know him and try to understand him. If he is the devil we need to try to find out and not let the our so called leaders spoon feed us their ideas. We ain't no dummies.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Lets just ASSume he's going to lie about everything and complain about intellectuals wanting to hear points of view other than what Foxnews tells us.

Have they had Fox News people there to do Q/A? I find that hard to believe

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

how exactly do you know what wouldn't be truthful? Can you read minds?

Are you aware that a TV program was aired in Iran that was about the Holocaust and was a fair depiction of what happened?

Fair to who? Link?

[Stylerod]

Some Ahmadinejad quotes:

# "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

# "Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."

# "The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."

# "If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."

# "Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."

# "Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."

# "We are ready to hold dialogue with all countries of the world except for the Israeli regime."

# "We ask the West to remove what they created sixty years ago and if they do not listen to our recommendations, then the Palestinian nation and other nations will eventually do this for them."

* "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work."

[Stylerod]

And what his top aide said at a School visit. This is what they teach their kids in Iran. Do you think their schools ever invite opposing opinion?

Iran leader's aide: Jews are filthy


Jews are filthy people, and that is why they have been accused throughout history of spreading deadly disease and plagues, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s advisor Mohammad Ali Ramin told students during a visit at the town of Rasht, the Iranian news site Rooz Online reported Thursday.


Ramin, a historian who serves as the president's most senior aide, is believed to be the man behind the regime's recent statements that the Holocaust is a myth.

“Historically, there are many accusations against the Jews. For example it was said that they were the source for such deadly disease as the plague and typhus. This is because the Jews are very filthy people. For a time people also said that they poisoned water wells belonging to Christians and thus killed them,” the site quoted Ramin as saying.

“I only know that Jews have been accused of such conspiracies and sabotage throughout history and have not performed well," he added.

Ramin reiterated past statements made by President Ahamadinejad regarding the Holocaust, saying it was the cause for the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories, and claimed that Israel is responsible for Middle East crisis.

“So long as Israel exists in the region there will never be peace and security in the Middle East,” he said adding, “so the resolution of the Holocaust issue will end in the destruction of Israel.”

Now, I might be arguing all of this for nothing. As far as I know a lot of you might be in Ahmadinejad and Ramins camp when it comes to Israel and the Jews.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

And what his top aide said at a School visit. This is what they teach their kids in Iran. Do you think their schools ever invite opposing opinion?




Now, I might be arguing all of this for nothing. As far as I know a lot of you might be in Ahmadinejad and Ramins camp when it comes to Israel and the Jews.

If that makes them an enemy, we should be invading Saudi Arabia right now for the shit our supposed ally allows taught in their schools.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Fair to who? Link?

Iranian Miniseries Like 'Schindler's List' Rivets
Program Airs On State-Run Television

TEHRAN, Sept. 16, 2007 - It is Iran's version of "Schindler's List," a miniseries that tells the tale of an Iranian diplomat in Paris who helps Jews escape the Holocaust - and viewers across the country are riveted.

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That's surprising enough in a country where hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has questioned whether the Holocaust even took place. What's more surprising is that government media produced the series, and is airing it on state-run television.
The Holocaust is rarely mentioned in state media in Iran, school textbooks don't discuss it and Iranians have little information about it.

Yet the series titled "Zero Degree Turn" is clearly sympathetic to the Jews' plight during World War II. It shows men, women and children with yellow stars on their clothes being taken forcibly out of their homes and loaded into trucks by Nazi soldiers.

"Where are they taking them?" the horrified hero, a young Iranian diplomat who works at the Iranian Embassy in Paris, asks someone in a crowd of onlookers.

"The Fascists are taking the Jews to the concentration camps," the man says. The hero, named Habib Parsa, then begins giving Iranian passports to Jews to allow them to flee occupied France to then-Palestine.

Though the Habib character is fictional, it is based on a true story of diplomats in the Iranian Embassy in Paris in the 1940s who gave out about 500 Iranian passports for Jews to use to escape.

The show's appearance now may reflect an attempt by Iran's leadership to moderate its image as anti-Semitic and to underline a distinction that Iranian officials often make - that their conflict is with Israel, not with the Jewish people.

About 25,000 Jews live in Iran, the largest Jewish community in the Middle East after Israel. They have one representative in parliament, which is run mostly by Islamic clerics.

The series could not have aired without being condoned by Iran's clerical leadership. The state broadcaster is under the control of the supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khomenei, who has final say in all matters inside Iran.

Moderate conservatives have been gaining ground in Iran, where there is increasing discontent with the ruling hardliners over rising tensions with the West, a worsening economy and price hikes in basic commodities.

The government even allowed the series to break another taboo in Iran: For the first time, many actresses appear without the state-mandated Islamic dress code. The producers wanted to realistically portray 1940s Paris, and thus avoided the headscarves and head-to-foot robes that all women must normally wear on Iranian TV.

Ahmadinejad sparked widespread outrage in 2005 when he made comments casting doubt on the Holocaust and saying the state of Israel should be "wiped from the map." His government organized a conference of Holocaust deniers and skeptics from around the world in December.

But the series has won support even from hardliners. Some argue that it links the Holocaust with Israel's creation, thus boosting an argument by Ahmadinejad that if the Nazi killing of Jews did take place, the Palestinians who then lived in Palestine should not have had to pay the price for it by the creation of Israel after the war.

"The series differentiates between Jews and Zionism. The ground for forming Israel is prepared when Hitler's army puts pressure on activist Jews. In this sense, it considers Nazism parallel to Zionism," the hard-line newspaper Keyhan said.

However, if the series does aim to make that point, it has not done so overtly.

State media have said the series, which began in April, is popular. It has been a revelation for some Iranians and has pulled them away from more popular satellite channels, which are banned but which many watch anyway on illegal dishes. The fare on state TV is usually dry.

"Once, I wept when I learned through the film what a dreadful destiny the small nation had during the world war in the heart of so-called civilized Europe," said Mahboubeh Rahamati, a Tehran bank teller.

Kazem Gharibi said he watches the series every Monday on a TV in his grocery store.

"Through this film, I understood that Jews had a hard time in the war - helpless and desperate, as we were when Iraq imposed war on us," he said, referring to the eight-year Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s.

The series began with a love story between Habib, the embassy employee, and a French Jew, Sara Stroke, in the early 1940s. Viewers say the love story pulls them in as much as the history.

After Paris is occupied by the Nazis, Habib decides to forge Iranian passports for many French Jews to save them from the Holocaust - starting with Sara and her family. The German government accepts his embassy's claim that the passport holders are from an Iranian tribe and lets them leave France.

Habib is imprisoned by the Nazis for espionage after his forgeries are discovered. He then is released and returns to Tehran, where he is jailed again for forging passports.

Eight episodes remain in the series, and viewers drawn by the love story are on edge as they await the finish.

"I have watched the series from the beginning," said Sedigheh Karandish, a housewife and mother of two. "It's pulling me in to see what these two people do at the end. Hopefully, it will be a happy ending."

abc7.com: Iranian Miniseries Like 'Schindler's List' Rivets

You'd think the liberal, 'terrist' appeasing media would be all over this story.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

It is going to be a Q and A session. He will be asked questions on various controversial issues and statements he has made. He will not be simply given an mic and that's it.

Poor Fellow!

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

What circumstances? The fact that Iran is doing the exact same thing we did in Afghanistan two decades ago? This somehow makes them a terrorist-supporting nation unworthy of dialogue?

wtf

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

Are you aware that a TV program was aired in Iran that was about the Holocaust and was a fair depiction of what happened? You might want to do some reading on the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

And you might want to know more about people who use one as an excuse for the other. There is a very old deep seeded ethnic and religious hatred at work here and if you think it is all politics you are rather naive. That is exactly what this terrorist will feed the far left dopes at Columbia.

Watch!

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

And what his top aide said at a School visit. This is what they teach their kids in Iran. Do you think their schools ever invite opposing opinion?

So then he shouldn't speak at an American college because of what they teach their kids in Iran?

Who cares if they don't invite opposing opinions? We do and that's all that matters in this case.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

And you might want to know more about people who use one as an excuse for the other. There is a very old deep seeded ethnic and religious hatred at work here and if you think it is all politics you are rather naive. That is exactly what this terrorist will feed the far left dopes at Columbia.

Watch!

Now anyone who wants to hear him speak are just a bunch of wing-nuts? There can be no other reason?

[motivez]

So you think we should just let his words stand and not question him on them, Stylerod? It's too scary to stand up in front of the big bad President of Iran and ask him a question, so we should just avoid him and not ask him questions about some of his ridiculous opinions, or express our opinion about them to him?

You're essentially suggesting that you believe that in large, the student body and leadership of Colombia University are a bunch jew haters, incapable of coherent thought in Ahmadinejad's presence, who are going to kiss his feet instead of asking tough questions because they're blinded by their prejudice against jewish people..

Regardless of what they do in Iran, in this country there's a tradition of a free exchange of ideas, rigorous debate, and so forth. We shouldn't be frightened to participate, because our ideas are better.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Scrum

So then he shouldn't speak at an American college because of what they teach their kids in Iran?

Who cares if they don't invite opposing opinions? We do and that's all that matters in this case.

What Planet are you talking about? I guess you have some secret list of right-wing neocons invited to speak at Columbia because I could not find it.

I did find this:

Columbia student union nixes controversial speaker

By ULA ILNYTZKY Associated Press Writer 5:23 PM EDT, September 18, 2007

NEW YORK - Jim Gilchrist, founder of the anti-illegal immigration Minuteman Project who was forced off a Columbia University stage last year, will not be coming back for a return engagement at the school.

The Columbia Political Union, a nonpartisan student group that had been planning the forum, said in a statement on its Web site Tuesday that "it has become clear that this event cannot take the form we had originally hoped it would and could not effectively accomplish the goals we had hoped it might."

Last Oct. 4, Gilchrist had to cut short his talk at the school after students from the Chicano Caucus and other groups climbed on stage with banners denouncing the Minutemen Project, which is based in Laguna Hills, Calif., and advocates action to prevent illegal immigration from Mexico.

That event was organized by the school's College Republicans club.

The CPU said in its statement that it had envisioned the event as part of its "Friendly Fire" speaker series, created by Columbia history lecturer and author David Eisenbach.

Eisenbach said he was disappointed by the students' decision.

"The health of a free society and a university depends on the free expression of ideas. Only through a free expression of ideas can we reach the truth," he said.

Reached for comment, Gilchrist said in a telephone interview that he was surprise at the decision, saying he had already purchased airplane tickets for the event next month _ a year to the day from his last appearance.

"I think Columbia is making a serious mistake," he said. "The CPU originally had a majority wanting me to come there. The deans wanted me to come there," although he said he always expected resistance from the student body.

Columbia student union nixes controversial speaker -- Newsday.com

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Scrum

Now anyone who wants to hear him speak are just a bunch of wing-nuts? There can be no other reason?

You think the man suffers from a lack of free speech? His opinions are National News. That does not warrant an invitation to an evironment that is proven hostile to "other" points of view. Please spare me the "we just want to listen" crap. The primary motivation is to offend a certain group of people. Not everyone falls for the tolerant well meaning liberal bullshit.