Originally Posted by motivez Legally wrong, but again, we haven't been talking about that for pretty much the entire thread.. I think the fathers actions were understandable given the circumstance, stealing the picture in the first place however was not.. and then beating the guy and kicking him in the ...
09-26-2007, 04:11 PM
| #121 | ||||
| Administrator  libertarian Oklahoma 
| Originally Posted by motivez If the guy was kicked in the head, I mean truly kicked in the head you'd think that'd result in a police report and some sort of medical treatment. In otherwords I dont think he got kicked in the head. Maybe forced off by someone's foot while he held onto a dudes elbow with his TEETH...but I doubt he was kicked, but I dont really know I wasn' there.
I agree taking the pic was wrong, the father had a right to be upset but not to physically assult anyone period. | ||||
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09-26-2007, 04:12 PM
| #122 | ||||
| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Oh and wehn you consider its been 3 years since his son's death he should have more than come to grips with it by now. | ||||
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09-26-2007, 04:12 PM
| #123 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| Originally Posted by Ardentfrost I'm not trying to legally justify them and I've said it's not the best way to understand it, but given the circumstances, and the emotion involved..
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09-26-2007, 04:12 PM
| #124 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur.  Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by motivez He did. He charged at the man. And when a crowd of people tried to pull him off he attacked them.
__________________ No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair. Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid: As we look back in history, the Founding Fathers would be cringing to hear people talking about eliminating earmarks. | ||||
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09-26-2007, 04:13 PM
| #125 | ||||
| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian  Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by motivez The father's actions were NOT acceptable. Just because you're grieving does not give you the right to assault other people, even if provoked. The man that took the photograph was in the wrong, but the moment that Carlos physically assaulted the man in an attempt to retrieve the photograph he was also in the wrong.
As for your assertion that they were kicking him in the head, every picture I've seen of him after the incident calls into question whether that even actually happened. But if it did, the crowd that did it is in the wrong as well. EVERYONE was wrong, NO ONE did the right thing, and NOBODY should be defending ANY of them.
__________________ “The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased.” --Alexander Hamilton--  | ||||
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09-26-2007, 04:13 PM
| #126 | ||||
| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by motivez And you keep saying the "crowd" attacked the guy which is also bullshit based on eyewitnesses and the police.
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09-26-2007, 04:14 PM
| #127 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 How long did it take you to come to grips with your sons death?
Everyone deals with grief in their own way, it takes some people longer than others, and since he seems to have a history of emotional instability (suicide attempt).. I don't think it's something you ever get over, and I think it wouldn't matter how long ago it would, someone disrespecting the memory of your son is something that could easily provoke you into something similar to what happened here. | ||||
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09-26-2007, 04:14 PM
| #128 | ||||
| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 you'd be surprised how long grief can persist.
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09-26-2007, 04:15 PM
| #129 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| Originally Posted by JaJae I think you mean defended himself from being assaulted and beaten and kicked.. if that's what you mean, then yes. He defended himself against the 5 or 6 members of this group and someone was bitten in the process.
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09-26-2007, 04:15 PM
| #130 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 Actually, no.
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09-26-2007, 04:15 PM
| #131 | ||||
| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by motivez Stealing the picture does not necessarily equate to disrespecting his son's memory, btw. Maybe those men felt that he was disrespecting his own child's memory and were trying to correct. Not saying they were right, they were not, but you're characterizing their actions in a way that you cannot possibly be sure they were intended.
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09-26-2007, 04:15 PM
| #132 | ||||
| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by motivez You don't ever get over it, but as an adult you have to behave as one.
As for his emotional instability that has no bearing on whether or not what he did was right/wrong, legal or illegal, he was wrong for attacking the guy and it was also an assult under the law. The other guy was wrong for stealing the picture which is stealing under the law. | ||||
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09-26-2007, 04:16 PM
| #133 | ||||
| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by Publius Doesn't matter, you have to deal with it as an adult and seek counseling if necessary.
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09-26-2007, 04:16 PM
| #134 | ||||
| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by motivez Care to offer proof of your assertion that the crowd attacked him? I haven't seen that from anything except your original post that tells only one small piece of the over all story.
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09-26-2007, 04:17 PM
| #135 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by Publius And lies about the half of what it did tell.... Hence the reason I initially questioned the source and the history of the man. I was told that was blaming the victim though and essentially I should take it as face value. There was no desire to hear the other side of the story that was OBVIOUSLY missing from the initial article considering it just didn't add up. Now that it's been presented.. well yea..
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09-26-2007, 04:17 PM
| #136 | ||||
| Hamiltonian > Jeffersonian Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 oh i agree 100%, but the fact remains that just because it had been 3 years doesn't mean he should be done grieving.
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09-26-2007, 04:17 PM
| #137 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est Pragmatist Greensboro, NC
| Originally Posted by Publius When you consider what they were yelling at him, in his mind it certainly did, and it's not for them to decide anyway..
I'm sure they thought they were doing the right thing. Why? Because the guy said he was "liberating" the picture. | ||||
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09-26-2007, 04:18 PM
| #138 | ||||
| Never, never, never give up  Conservative Party High Point, NC
| Originally Posted by motivez And that is where the lie is. They pulled him off the guy. Is that assault? Wow, your thread is lost Mot. Just get over it. You want to believe a false story so bad it's clouding your common sense. You just need to step back and take a breath.
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09-26-2007, 04:18 PM
| #139 | ||||
| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by Publius
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