Supreme Court vs Lethal Injection

Donkey® · 09-25-2007, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by article

Justices to decide if lethal injection is 'cruel and unusual'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court agreed Tuesday to delve into a divisive controversy over capital punishment -- whether lethal injection causes excruciating pain and violates the Constitution's ban on "cruel and unusual punishment."

The justices have never directly addressed the fundamental question over the use of the chemical "cocktail" of drugs used to execute convicted killers.

All 37 states that perform lethal injections use the three-drug mixture at issue in the case.

Kentucky inmates Ralph Baze and Clyde Bowling Jr. brought suit in federal court three years ago, questioning the state's chemical mixture and the procedures used to administer it.

They claim the first drug -- sodium thiopental -- which renders the prisoner unconscious, wears off too quickly, and some prisoners are actually awake and able to feel pain as the execution continues.

The second drug -- pancuronium bromide -- paralyzes all muscle movement and prevents the condemned person from speaking out and expressing awareness of the pain, according to the men's lawyers.

The third drug -- potassium chloride -- then induces cardiac arrest and is "excruciatingly painful in a conscious person."

Baze, 52, admits killing Powell County Sheriff Steve Bennett and Deputy Arthur Briscoe in 1992 while the lawmen were trying to serve him with arrest warrants.

Kentucky Gov. Ernie Fletcher had signed a warrant for Baze to be put to death Tuesday, but on September 12 the state Supreme Court stayed the execution. The state court said it needed more time to review another appeal by Baze, who also is challenging his conviction on technical grounds.

He told The Associated Press several days ago that he was "tickled" by a state court's decision.

"I prayed about it," he told the wire service. "I just believed if there was any justice in this world at all, I would get an opportunity to show this stuff. It came in God's time."

A spokeswoman for Fletcher said in a September 12 statement that "the governor shares the frustration of the Bennett and Briscoe families, who have waited 15 years for justice."

Bowling was convicted of killing Edward and Tina Earley in Louisville in 1990. Their 2-year-old son was wounded in the attack in the couple's dry cleaning business parking lot. Bowling's lawyers have claimed prosecutorial misconduct in the case, and say their client has a low IQ.

State officials say their procedures are in line with other states, and that a doctor is on site and available to provide any pre-execution medical care to the inmate.

In their legal brief to the high court, Kentucky corrections officials warned against "an endless road of litigation over whether (state) lethal injection protocols could somehow be changed to further reduce the already remote chance that a condemned inmate could be conscious during an execution."

The state further warned, "Condemned inmates will never run out of ideas for changes to the procedures, drugs, or equipment used during lethal injection."

Federal and state judges in a number of jurisdictions have halted executions because of concerns about how lethal injections are administered.

In Tennessee least week, federal Judge Aleta Trauger stopped a planned execution, saying correction officials' new method of execution "presents a substantial risk of unnecessary pain."

In 2005, then-Florida Gov. Jeb Bush issued a moratorium in his state after complaints over the length of time needed to execute prisoner Angel Nieves Diaz. A two-year review is now complete and the state plans to reinstate executions in November. But those plans may be put on hold now that the high court will address the issue.

The Supreme Court has not ruled directly on the "cruel and unusual" aspect of lethal injection, but did conclude last year that prisoners can make last-ditch legal challenges to the method of execution, using claims that they would suffer a painful death.

Arguments in the Baze case will be held early next year, with a ruling by late June.

As I have grown up and had the ability to mull over the whole death penalty thing...I just don't see any valid reason behind it anymore. It's not a deterrent. It's not a cost savings situation. It serves as nothing but a mechanism for revenge...which is not what the justice system is supposed to do. We talk about "barbarian" countries...but we look like idiots doing it and continuing this practice.

JaJae · 09-25-2007, 04:34 PM

It seems as if the debate will be whether or not lethal injection will be deemed cruel and unusual for the minority of those who may actually feel pain during their execution. There are plenty of other ways one can be executed though. I don't necessarily care how people are executed. I don't deem lethal injection as cruel and unusual though. If done improperly it can be, but the method itself is not.

WickedLou9 · 09-25-2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

As I have grown up and had the ability to mull over the whole death penalty thing...I just don't see any valid reason behind it anymore. It's not a deterrent. It's not a cost savings situation. It serves as nothing but a mechanism for revenge...which is not what the justice system is supposed to do. We talk about "barbarian" countries...but we look like idiots doing it and continuing this practice.

I don't like the death penalty either for the same reasons. Also, the logical problem where it's irreversible.. if they are later proven innocent.. oops. With life in prison at least you can let them go.

Aside from that... Why don't they just give people a lethal dose of some barbituate like morphine or sodium pentobarb? They would fall asleep in a blissful haze and never wake up. Isn't that how we put down sick animals? I never understood why we didn't just do that.

Donkey® · 09-25-2007, 04:36 PM

What justification is there for putting people to death in the first place?

avsp · 09-25-2007, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I don't deem lethal injection as cruel and unusual though. If done improperly it can be, but the method itself is not.

Its certainly 'unusual', as it only really happens at legal executions.

The fact that it can be done 'improperly' does make it 'cruel' especially as there are other less problematic ways, (as you suggest).

I'm not in favour really of the death penalty for all the usual reasons such as those already mentioned

I can see its point for providing revenge & can even see the benefit of a society of having that revenge, ..., but only really for war criminals, dictators etc. It can I think provide a 'stop'

Galactic Gigolo · 09-25-2007, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What justification is there for putting people to death in the first place?

Deters crime.

...

Even though it doesn't.

With that out of the way, revenge.

...

Even though our justice system shouldn't be based on that.

JaJae · 09-25-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What justification is there for putting people to death in the first place?

Justice. Some crimes are so heinous that the only form of justice can be the ultimate price.

SoFlaJDM · 09-25-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Justice. Some crimes are so heinous that the only form of justice can be the ultimate price.

Donkey® · 09-25-2007, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Justice. Some crimes are so heinous that the only form of justice can be the ultimate price.

Um, not really. Also, staying in prison the rest of one's life can be considered "the ultimate price" as well.

Stylerod · 09-25-2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Justice. Some crimes are so heinous that the only form of justice can be the ultimate price.

Agreed. Them having a ball and being the big cheese in prison isn't punishment enough for some crimes.

JaJae · 09-25-2007, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Um, not really. Also, staying in prison the rest of one's life can be considered "the ultimate price" as well.

Depends on your politics. Since the recidivism rate is so high and people who come out of jail often commit crimes to go back in I would have to say there can be great debate that imprisonment is the ultimate price. If it were, we'd have a lot more prisoners committing suicide.

WickedLou9 · 09-25-2007, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Agreed. Them having a ball and being the big cheese in prison isn't punishment enough for some crimes.

umm. what?

Having a ball in prison? being completely stripped of all of your rights, being told when to eat, when to sleep, when to shower, etc... Sounds like a blast to me! Where do I sign up!?

Stylerod · 09-25-2007, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Um, not really. Also, staying in prison the rest of one's life can be considered "the ultimate price" as well.

Hardly. 3 meals a day. Lifting weights. Watching TV. Playing basketball. Making people your "bitch". I'm thinking it's not the ultimate price. If it was murderers wouldn't fight so hard to not get the death penalty.

SoFlaJDM · 09-25-2007, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

umm. what?

Having a ball in prison? being completely stripped of all of your rights, being told when to eat, when to sleep, when to shower, etc... Sounds like a blast to me! Where do I sign up!?

@ being the big cheese

obviously he didn't hear what happened with dahmer... he sure was the big cheese

WickedLou9 · 09-25-2007, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Hardly. 3 meals a day. Lifting weights. Watching TV. Playing basketball. Making people your "bitch". I'm thinking it's not the ultimate price. If it was murderers wouldn't fight so hard to not get the death penalty.

Maybe it's because they don't want to die!? One of the most basic human instincts?

SoFlaJDM · 09-25-2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Hardly. 3 meals a day. Lifting weights. Watching TV. Playing basketball. Making people your "bitch". I'm thinking it's not the ultimate price. If it was murderers wouldn't fight so hard to not get the death penalty.

sounds like a glamorous life... you're absolutely right... what would a big cheese not like?

Stylerod · 09-25-2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

@ being the big cheese

obviously he didn't hear what happened with dahmer... he sure was the big cheese

Shame it doesn't happen to more. He got what he deserved.

WickedLou9 · 09-25-2007, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

sounds like a glamorous life... you're absolutely right... what would a big cheese not like?

Oh yeah I can see where fucking another man in the ass would be awesome. Oh yeah.. Mmm hairy man ass.

Hold on I am going to go puke .

Stylerod · 09-25-2007, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Maybe it's because they don't want to die!? One of the most basic human instincts?

EURIKA!!!!

Donkey® · 09-25-2007, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Depends on your politics. Since the recidivism rate is so high and people who come out of jail often commit c