Soldiers killing unarmed Iraqis... come on in War sympathizers!

[Ardentfrost]

Soldier tells of shooting unarmed Iraqi - Yahoo! News

Soldier tells of shooting unarmed Iraqi

BAGHDAD - A U.S. soldier cried Thursday as he told a court-martial that his staff sergeant ordered him to shoot an unarmed Iraqi. He said the sergeant then laughed and told the trooper to finish the job as the dying man convulsed on the ground.
ADVERTISEMENT

The military reported, meanwhile, that it had opened an investigation into the deaths of five women and four children this week in a village where American forces had carried out ground and air assaults.

Both incidents took place in a region south of the capital known as the triangle of death, a Sunni-dominated area that has seen some of the war's heaviest fighting and most gruesome deaths.

Prosecutors claim the first case involved the killing of an Iraqi man with a 9mm pistol, placing an AK-47 rifle by his body to make it seem as though he was armed, and failing to ensure humane treatment of a detainee — the victim.

In the court-martial, Sgt. Evan Vela, 23, spoke barely above a whisper as he recounted shooting the man on May 11 near Iskandariyah, a mostly Sunni city 30 miles south of Baghdad.

Vela said Staff Sgt. Michael Hensley of Candler, N.C., told him to shoot the man, who had stumbled upon their snipers' hideout, although he was not armed and had his hands in the air when he approached the soldiers.

"He (Hensley) asked me if I was ready. I had the pistol out. I heard the word shoot. I don't remember pulling the trigger. It took me a second to realize that the shot came from the pistol in my hand," he said, crying.

Vela said that as the Iraqi man was convulsing on the ground, "Hensley kind of laughed about it and hit the guy on the throat and said shoot again."

"After he (the Iraqi man) was shot, Hensley pulled an AK-47 out of his rucksack and said, 'this is what we are going to say happened,'" Vela said, before he was dismissed from the witness stand to compose himself.

Vela told the story during the second day of the court-martial of Spc. Jorge G. Sandoval, of Laredo, Texas. Sandoval is on trial for allegedly killing Iraqis and trying to cover up the deaths by planting weapons at the scene.

Vela said Sandoval was not present during the May 11 killing but was nearby providing security. Sandoval has pleaded not guilty to five charges, including the April 27 murder of a second unidentified Iraqi man and placing a detonation wire on his body. He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison if convicted.

Both Vela of Rigby, Idaho, and Hensley are also charged in the case but will be court-martialed separately. It was unclear why Vela was called to testify in Sandoval's court-martial.

The three soldiers are part of the Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, based at Fort Richardson, Alaska.

Vela was flown from Kuwait to testify under a deal that bars his account of events from being used against him when he goes to trial.

Military prosecutors said the killings in which the three men are charged occurred between April and June near Iskandariyah. The investigation began after military authorities received reports of alleged wrongdoing from fellow soldiers, the Army has said.

Sandoval was arrested in June while on a two-week leave visiting his family.

Vela's lawyer Gary Myers claimed this week that Army snipers hunting insurgents in Iraq were under orders to "bait" their targets with suspicious materials, such as detonation cords, then kill those who picked up the items. He said his client was acting on "orders."

A second Vela lawyer, James Culp, said: "Our client is no murderer. The world will consider him to be a victim in this case." He said Vela had slept only three hours the night before the incident and that the soldiers had been on a sniping mission for four days.

Asked about the existence of the "baiting program," Capt. Craig Drummond, Sandoval's military defense attorney, said it was unclear "what programs were going on out there and when," especially "if there were things that were done that made the rules of engagement not clear."

Sgt. 1st Class Tarrol Petersen, who instructs snipers at Ft. Benning, Ga., testified as an expert witness that snipers need sufficient rest.

"You can only last for so long when you are on a mission. As snipers we look through a scope, we see a face. It's a lot different than shooting someone 100 meters away with an ordinary rifle. When snipers break, they break bad," Petersen said.

In the incident south of Baghdad in which the five women and four children died, the military said their bodies were found after U.S. forces targeted al-Qaida in Iraq-linked fighters in ground and air operations late Tuesday in the predominantly Sunni village of Babahani.

Two area police officers told The Associated Press that U.S. fighter jets bombed two houses before dawn Wednesday. The women and children were killed in the first house struck, and the second house was damaged, they said.

Amer Zamil, who works at nearby Mussayib hospital 40 miles south of Baghdad, said two of the children were decapitated, evidently in the bombing.

The police officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the information, said ground forces raided a local mosque and that the preacher, Imam Hassan Abboud al-Janabi, was killed. The military had no immediate response to the claims.

The military said buildings in the area have been used as al-Qaida hideouts. It said a search of a nearby house uncovered material for making roadside bombs, including wire, batteries and timers.

The police said the targeted village was a stronghold of insurgents who have prevented Iraqi security forces from entering.

Also Thursday, Iraq's Sunni vice president held a rare meeting with the country's top Shiite cleric to seek support for a 25-point blueprint for political reform, the latest in a series of efforts by both Islamic sects to promote unity.

Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi said Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani praised his initiative during their two-hour meeting in Najaf, 100 miles south of Baghdad. The Shiite spiritual leader previously has met with Sunni clerics, but this was his first meeting with a senior government official from the disaffected minority Islamic sect, aides said.

Meanwhile, American forces arrested three "extremists" in high-level jobs and plotting kidnapping operations at Baghdad International Airport, the military said in a statement. It said those arrested were plotting to kidnap Iraqi forces and civilians working with U.S. troops.

So, other than being made complete sick to my stomach when reading this account of a sociopath sergeant, I thought "man, and we wonder why we have such a shitty reputation around the world." I know that during war shit happens, and some of it really bad shit, but this is just particularly horrid and I think is possibly avoidable. I've heard stories about people going nuts (six6ftr has some crazy stories from Iraq and his 20+ year in the marines), but surely there is a way to keep an eye on people to figure out if they're close to a mental break.

I honestly hope to God that there aren't many people like this over in Iraq.

But, for those that are sympathizing in the bait thread, this is the kinds of shit that is coming out because of the investigation.

I do feel bad for the sniper who was commanded to do it, though.

[6SpeedTA95]

This is freakin' disturbing as hell. It will be interesting to see the results of the trial.

I do not find this particularly surprising, there are hundreds of thousands of troops that have been rotated in and out of Iraq. That doesn't excuse the actions of these individuals but I do not think it is indicitive of the military in general.

That Sergeant should be locked up if proven guilty. That is just sick

edit: and I too feel bad for the soldier who was ordered to shoot

[Stylerod]

It's great we have a military that brings charges against it's own when it finds out things are done wrong.

[Publius]

Those Iraqis were obviously hostile threats to U.S. forces, otherwise our soldiers wouldn't have killed them.

/tongueincheek

This is really fucking disturbing.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

It's great we have a military that brings charges against it's own when it finds out things are done wrong.

.


They committed murder. US prosecuted them. What more do you want to happen ?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

It's great we have a military that brings charges against it's own when it finds out things are done wrong.

Not disagreeing that it's good that we prosecute our soldiers that break the law, but that is outlined in the GC.

[JaJae]

Someone's neck needs to be stretched if found guilty here.

[abregar]

If the Sergeant is found guilty of this crime, he does not desrve to breath the same air that we do. Unfortunately we get these sick SOB's from time to time. Don't know what we can do to prevent it.

[kinggovernor]

this is why we have rules in war. There is a huge difference between engaging hostile targets and using drop weapons.

The baiting thread article attempted to mingle them together. Using drop weapons is obviously illegal and immoral.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

It's great we have a military that brings charges against it's own when it finds out things are done wrong.

Especially when the insurgents are so careful to bring justice when one of their own kills innocent Iraqi civilians.

Oh wait, that would be their primary targets!

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by abregar

If the Sergeant is found guilty of this crime, he does not desrve to breath the same air that we do. Unfortunately we get these sick SOB's from time to time. Don't know what we can do to prevent it.

For obvious reasons sick sadistic people are attracted to police and military service. I think they are few in number, but they exists. It is an unfortunate fact of life.

What does that have to do with "War sympathizers" whatever that means?

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Not disagreeing that it's good that we prosecute our soldiers that break the law, but that is outlined in the GC.

USMCJ > GC

One is enforceable, the other really isn't

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

USMCJ > GC

One is enforceable, the other really isn't

haha, I like how you use the GC when it's convenient, and the USMCJ when it isn't

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

haha, I like how you use the GC when it's convenient, and the USMCJ when it isn't

when have you ever seen the GC been enforced?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

when have you ever seen the GC been enforced?

The Supreme Court has ruled that aspects of the GC apply to us as a matter of treaty obligation, I think that's a pretty clear example.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by motivez

The Supreme Court has ruled that aspects of the GC apply to us as a matter of treaty obligation, I think that's a pretty clear example.

Except they stopped a legitament process of the GC.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

For obvious reasons sick sadistic people are attracted to police and military service. I think they are few in number, but they exists. It is an unfortunate fact of life.

What does that have to do with "War sympathizers" whatever that means?

Off topic but it surprises me how many get into law enforcement with all the background, poly and psych stuff they force you to do now days.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Except they stopped a legitament process of the GC.

No, they didn't. Again, I suggest you read the actual opinion, because this comes up every time in these discussions and you're consistently wrong.

They said the way Bush had them set up did not comply with various laws of war, etc.. and while it was his right to set them up, they had to comply to be legitimate.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by motivez

No, they didn't. Again, I suggest you read the actual opinion, because this comes up every time in these discussions and you're consistently wrong.

They said the way Bush had them set up did not comply with various laws of war, etc.. and while it was his right to set them up, they had to comply to be legitimate.

Except there is NOTHING in the laws of wars about the specifics, so how could they be set up wrong ? The issue was simply Bush did it without Congressional approval.