Media Matters, but not Truth....

[six6ftr]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

X 11ty billion

90-95% of troops in Iraq don't want to be there. Do you want to go to work on Monday morning? Now think about were regularly shot at while at work. It's our job, that doesn't mean we love being in combat. If everyone loved being there then they would be turning down guys who volunteered to stay for extra deployments, but they aren't.

Yes very true. I am seeing a mass exodus of what we call "first termers" while the "careeerist" tend to stay because of the years they have invested in the military but still, they are not happy about the situation we are currently in nor do they look forward to going back.

Most of them figure that it will be over soon and if things get worse, they will retire.

I am only speaking from a National Guard/Reserve stand point though.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Explain NPR, then.

NPR is centrist.

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

At least somebody admits it.

Reality has a liberal bias.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

Lastly, after listening to the full audio, it's clear to me that Rush isn't just talking about this caller.. he's talking about something broader, which is why he uses the plural: soldiers ..



He's essentially saying yeah, liberals never talk to real soldiers, the ones who talk to the media are phony soldiers,

Exactly. He's saying they liberals found this "soldier"............(emphasis) WHO LIED ABOUT WHO HE REALLY WAS............and keep parading THESE PHONY SOLDIERS in front of the media.

I'm not sure how it's possible to listen to the entire segment and come to any other conclusion, unless of course you want to

and then agrees with the guys statements that the real soldiers are the ones who want us to be in Iraq, and so on and so forth.. so logically, the ones who are against the war and so forth can't be the real soldiers.

So you didn't listen to the ENTIRE clip then...fantastic talking with you

I don't expect the Limbaugh fan club on here to agree though

I've never listened to rush, I'm hardly in his "fan club", but he's being railroaded by someone who took part of a statement, made up a story around it, and reported it as true.

I call that lying. Rush is getting screwed.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Scrum

NPR is centrist.

what? Maybe they changed since I stopped listening, but when they started a piece with "what did president bush screw up today?" I'd hardly call that centrist.

and yes, I heard those words from an NPR host.

Reality has a liberal bias.

this makes no sense.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

Lastly, after listening to the full audio, it's clear to me that Rush isn't just talking about this caller.. he's talking about something broader, which is why he uses the plural: soldiers ..



He's essentially saying yeah, liberals never talk to real soldiers, the ones who talk to the media are phony soldiers, and then agrees with the guys statements that the real soldiers are the ones who want us to be in Iraq, and so on and so forth.. so logically, the ones who are against the war and so forth can't be the real soldiers.

I don't expect the Limbaugh fan club on here to agree though

There's no fan club here that I can see. However, there are a lot of people who are not willing to read the entire transcript or listen to the whole thing even though it was posted on page 1.

RUSH ARCHIVE: It's not possible intellectually to follow these people.

CALLER: No, it's not. And what's really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

RUSH: The phony soldiers.

CALLER: The phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they're proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they're willing to sacrifice for the country.

RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.

RUSH: It's frustrating and maddening, and why they must be kept in the minority. I want to thank you, Mike, for calling. I appreciate it very much.

Here is a Morning Update that we did recently, talking about fake soldiers. This is a story of who the left props up as heroes. They have their celebrities and one of them was Army Ranger Jesse MacBeth. Now, he was a "corporal." I say in quotes. Twenty-three years old. What made Jesse MacBeth a hero to the anti-war crowd wasn't his Purple Heart; it wasn't his being affiliated with post-traumatic stress disorder from tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. No. What made Jesse MacBeth, Army Ranger, a hero to the left was his courage, in their view, off the battlefield, without regard to consequences. He told the world the abuses he had witnessed in Iraq, American soldiers killing unarmed civilians, hundreds of men, women, even children. In one gruesome account, translated into Arabic and spread widely across the Internet, Army Ranger Jesse MacBeth describes the horrors this way: "We would burn their bodies. We would hang their bodies from the rafters in the mosque."
Now, recently, Jesse MacBeth, poster boy for the anti-war left, had his day in court. And you know what? He was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation for falsifying a Department of Veterans Affairs claim and his Army discharge record. He was in the Army. Jesse MacBeth was in the Army, folks, briefly. Forty-four days before he washed out of boot camp. Jesse MacBeth isn't an Army Ranger, never was. He isn't a corporal, never was. He never won the Purple Heart, and he was never in combat to witness the horrors he claimed to have seen. You probably haven't even heard about this. And, if you have, you haven't heard much about it. This doesn't fit the narrative and the template in the Drive-By Media and the Democrat Party as to who is a genuine war hero. Don't look for any retractions, by the way. Not from the anti-war left, the anti-military Drive-By Media, or the Arabic websites that spread Jesse MacBeth's lies about our troops, because the truth for the left is fiction that serves their purpose. They have to lie about such atrocities because they can't find any that fit the template of the way they see the US military. In other words, for the American anti-war left, the greatest inconvenience they face is the truth.

You can see the caller is talking about "phony soldiers" in the sense the media is going bonkers about. Rush on the other hand was using a lead in and talking about the phony soldiers lying to the media. It was clearly a lead in to his next topic. It was taken completely out of context. If it wasn't why would the media and everybody else cut the transcript as you did at such an odd and convenient spot? It seems to serve absolutely no purpose, but attack Rush and to take his words out of context of the actual show.

When the caller started talking about "phony soldiers" Rush should have denounced him, rather than using it as a lead in like he did. The fact that he didn't was wrong. But reading the transcript and listening to his show I can't see how any person could come away thinking he was calling soldiers who disagreed with his political views phony. The fact is, he then goes into his very next topic which describes what he means by phony/fake soldiers in the media. But, everyone wants to pretend that never happened and just attack Rush.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by JaJae

His personal experience is enough evidence for me

So you approve of anecdotal garbage.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Explain NPR, then.

Funded by the government.

Look at the failure of Air America.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Grouch

So you approve of anecdotal garbage.

What was your post based on? An uninformed personal opinion?

[RMNIXON]

ABC Reported on ‘Phony Heroes' Two Days Before Rush Limbaugh Did


By Noel Sheppard | September 30, 2007 - 20:54 ET


This is really hysterical, folks, and definitely requires all drinking vessels be properly stowed before continuing.
Just days before Rush Limbaugh was attacked by a number of press outlets for discussing "phony soldiers" on the air, ABC's Brian Ross did a segment on "World News with Charles Gibson" dealing with "phony heroes...scam artists...posing as the war heroes they never were, claiming credit for acts of courage in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Marvelously, this story was aired on Monday, September 24, just two days before Limbaugh made his comments. And, as noted in a NewsBusters posting by the MRC's Brent Baker, the report even mentioned the same "phony soldier," Jesse Macbeth (pictured to the right), that Limbaugh did on his program Wednesday.

Will media attack ABC with the same zeal they did Limbaugh? Maybe even more important, will House Democrats offer a resolution to condemn Ross, Gibson, and everyone involved in ABC's report?

While you ponder, what follows is a full transcript of this segment (video available here, h/t Rush Limbaugh.com):

CHARLES GIBSON, HOST: (Voiceover) 'A Closer Look" tonight at phony heroes. A famous recruiting slogan once touted the Army as a place to be all you can be. But increasingly, scam artists are posing as the war heroes they never were, claiming credit for acts of courage in Iraq and Afghanistan. Federal officials have launched a crackdown. Operation Stolen Valor they call it. Tonight, our Brian Ross investigates.....

BRIAN ROSS (ABC NEWS)

(Voiceover) But authorities say the most disturbing case involves this man, 23-year-old Jesse Macbeth. In a YouTube video seen around the world, Macbeth became a rallying point for anti-war groups, as he talked of the Purple Heart he received in Iraq and described how he and other US Army rangers killed innocent civilians at a Baghdad mosque.

JESSE ADAM MACBETH (VIDEO BLOGGER)

Women and men, you know - while in their prayer, we started slaughtering them.

BRIAN ROSS (ABC NEWS)

(Voiceover) It was a complete fabrication.

More:

ABC Reported on ‘Phony Heroes' Two Days Before Rush Limbaugh Did | NewsBusters.org

__________________________________________________ ______

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Scrum

NPR is centrist.


Reality has a liberal bias.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by JaJae

What was your post based on? An uninformed personal opinion?

Whats your post based on? A single persons personal opinion.



Are you going to attempt to say that anecdotal evidence of one person on a web forum is worth a shit? Come on man. One persons experience means nothing in proving the actuality of a situation such as this.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Grouch

Whats your post based on? A single persons personal opinion.

Are you going to attempt to say that anecdotal evidence of one person on a web forum is worth a shit? Come on man. One persons experience means nothing in proving the actuality of a situation such as this.

Actually I know many people in Iraq. None of them are happy about being there. Most support what they're doing, but that's a completely different story. What in the world makes you think these soldiers happily go overseas to a sandbox away from their families for such long duration of time? You're talking about anecdotal evidence, but you haven't posted anything relevant to first hand experience, polls or anything that shows even the slightest bit of an informed opinion on the issue.

What’s going on there now? Oh the minor chance of death during the job he swore he would do? It’s not the cake walk the first gulf war was, now man the fuck up cowboy.

He’s paid to risk his fucking life, if he doesn't like it he should have never put the uniform on. None of this people should have.

It has nothing to do with being a keyboard jockey, it has to do with not being a fucking retard and expecting your job as solider to be a fucking frat party.

This is absolutely abhorrent. People serve their country for many reasons. I can't think of many sane people who serve their country because they enjoy being in combat. Have you ever spoken to someone who has been in Iraq?

[7960]

this is fucking CLASSIC!! Rush is an asshole because, if you take it out of context, then he was talking about all soldiers who oppose the war. But ABC didn't mean all soldiers even thought they used nearly the exact same wording.

Beautiful!!! Well played!!

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

ABC Reported on ‘Phony Heroes' Two Days Before Rush Limbaugh Did


By Noel Sheppard | September 30, 2007 - 20:54 ET


This is really hysterical, folks, and definitely requires all drinking vessels be properly stowed before continuing.
Just days before Rush Limbaugh was attacked by a number of press outlets for discussing "phony soldiers" on the air, ABC's Brian Ross did a segment on "World News with Charles Gibson" dealing with "phony heroes...scam artists...posing as the war heroes they never were, claiming credit for acts of courage in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Marvelously, this story was aired on Monday, September 24, just two days before Limbaugh made his comments. And, as noted in a NewsBusters posting by the MRC's Brent Baker, the report even mentioned the same "phony soldier," Jesse Macbeth (pictured to the right), that Limbaugh did on his program Wednesday.

Will media attack ABC with the same zeal they did Limbaugh? Maybe even more important, will House Democrats offer a resolution to condemn Ross, Gibson, and everyone involved in ABC's report?

While you ponder, what follows is a full transcript of this segment (video available here, h/t Rush Limbaugh.com):

CHARLES GIBSON, HOST: (Voiceover) 'A Closer Look" tonight at phony heroes. A famous recruiting slogan once touted the Army as a place to be all you can be. But increasingly, scam artists are posing as the war heroes they never were, claiming credit for acts of courage in Iraq and Afghanistan. Federal officials have launched a crackdown. Operation Stolen Valor they call it. Tonight, our Brian Ross investigates.....

BRIAN ROSS (ABC NEWS)

(Voiceover) But authorities say the most disturbing case involves this man, 23-year-old Jesse Macbeth. In a YouTube video seen around the world, Macbeth became a rallying point for anti-war groups, as he talked of the Purple Heart he received in Iraq and described how he and other US Army rangers killed innocent civilians at a Baghdad mosque.

JESSE ADAM MACBETH (VIDEO BLOGGER)

Women and men, you know - while in their prayer, we started slaughtering them.

BRIAN ROSS (ABC NEWS)

(Voiceover) It was a complete fabrication.

More:

ABC Reported on ‘Phony Heroes' Two Days Before Rush Limbaugh Did | NewsBusters.org

__________________________________________________ ______

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

Lastly, after listening to the full audio, it's clear to me that Rush isn't just talking about this caller.. he's talking about something broader, which is why he uses the plural: soldiers ..
He's essentially saying yeah, liberals never talk to real soldiers, the ones who talk to the media are phony soldiers, and then agrees with the guys statements that the real soldiers are the ones who want us to be in Iraq, and so on and so forth.. so logically, the ones who are against the war and so forth can't be the real soldiers.

I don't expect the Limbaugh fan club on here to agree though

That is such an unreasonable leap I hope you are OK? Falling that far down a cliff that far must hurt? Finally we get beyond the Media Matters quotation clips and present what Rush said in full content and this is the best you got? It is rather clear the vast majority of the real soldiers do want to continue our mission in Iraq and are not anti-war protestors. No doubt you would be more than interested in presenting them if they were not. And their are phoney soldiers plural.

I am not asking anyone to like Rush or agree with anything he says. The whole post is about honesty in what passes as internet journalism and the kind of pack mentality that follows in the media. I think it is also another clear example of media bias. Is that so hard to follow?


But if the most important consideration is to defend the left to the last stand I guess I should not bother pointing such things out?

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Actually I know many people in Iraq. None of them are happy about being there.

I'd go on a limb and guess most of them aren't "happy" about being there. But is that the same as "think we should leave iraq now" ?

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Actually I know many people in Iraq. None of them are happy about being there. Most support what they're doing, but that's a completely different story. What in the world makes you think these soldiers happily go overseas to a sandbox away from their families for such long duration of time? You're talking about anecdotal evidence, but you haven't posted anything relevant to first hand experience, polls or anything that shows even the slightest bit of an informed opinion on the issue.

Polls? I just posted one. Good job paying attention buddy

As far as personal experience I have a dozen ROTC members in my WWII History class that are all excited to go to the war. My sister’s boyfriend graduated from the ROTC and is currently in Alabama doing training and he can’t wait

now I've never said anything about anyone being happy to go to war. Nice to see you misrepresenting everything I've said. What I said is that as a solider you agree to a job, you do the job, you have no opinion, if you were afraid of the job or didn't want to do the job you should have never walked through the recruiters’ door. Welcome to reality of war kiddos. Sometimes you have to man up and go through some shit to get that free college education.

Now if you want to make claims about recruitment and retention. Since you love one person’s worthless anecdotal claims how about you educate yourself and learn about reality.


Military Recruiting, Retention Figures for August Announced - Associated Content

According to the press release, all four branches of active duty service, Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps, met or exceeded their recruiting goals for August 2007. The Army surpassed its goal of 9,600 new enlistees by recruiting 10,126 new soldiers in August. That number represents 106 percent of the Army's goal for the month. The Navy data indicate exactly 100 percent of the goal of 4,194 new sailors. The Air Force similarly reported 100 percent with 3,128 new airmen. The Marine Corps joined the Army in surpassing its recruiting goal by garnering 105 percent, or 4,700 new Marines compared to the Marine goal of 4,472.

For active duty retention, the press release stated "Retention remains extremely strong in the active force with all services meeting or exceeding their aggregate year-to-date targets." Retention figures represent the number of military personnel who choose to reenlist rather than ending their military service.

[six6ftr]

Originally Posted by Grouch

Polls? I just posted one. Good job paying attention buddy

As far as personal experience I have a dozen ROTC members in my WWII History class that are all excited to go to the war. My sister’s boyfriend graduated from the ROTC and is currently in Alabama doing training and he can’t wait

now I've never said anything about anyone being happy to go to war. Nice to see you misrepresenting everything I've said. What I said is that as a solider you agree to a job, you do the job, you have no opinion, if you were afraid of the job or didn't want to do the job you should have never walked through the recruiters’ door. Welcome to reality of war kiddos. Sometimes you have to man up and go through some shit to get that free college education.

Now if you want to make claims about recruitment and retention. Since you love one person’s worthless anecdotal claims how about you educate yourself and learn about reality.


Military Recruiting, Retention Figures for August Announced - Associated Content

Are you aware that the recruiting and retention standards have been changed? Waivers for those with criminal records, maximum age limits raised, large bonuses! We are throwing everything at them but the kitchen sink! The bad part is that it is creating a sense of entitlement among those soldiers that are coming up for re-enlistment. They are now approaching me trying to haggle an extension like they are buying a new car because they heard that the military is desperate and willing to give anything to get them to stick around.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by six6ftr

Are you aware that the recruiting and retention standards have been changed? Waivers for those with criminal records, maximum age limits raised, large bonuses! We are throwing everything at them but the kitchen sink! The bad part is that it is creating a sense of entitlement among those soldiers that are coming up for re-enlistment. They are now approaching me trying to haggle an extension like they are buying a new car because they heard that the military is desperate and willing to give anything to get them to stick around.

There is no untruth in what you have said. But if people are still willing to go to war, knowing the exactly what they will face. They must like it enough to be worth whatever additional bonus's they are throwing out at already enlisted people.

If someone hates it that much just say no. Don't take the money and then bitch and moan about the conditions after.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Grouch

Polls? I just posted one. Good job paying attention buddy

As far as personal experience I have a dozen ROTC members in my WWII History class that are all excited to go to the war. My sister’s boyfriend graduated from the ROTC and is currently in Alabama doing training and he can’t wait

Cool, you know some kids who have never seen the face of war, but are all excited to go fight. Big difference from veterans of wars who have been in combat. Your anecdote is just awesome.

now I've never said anything about anyone being happy to go to war. Nice to see you misrepresenting everything I've said. What I said is that as a solider you agree to a job, you do the job, you have no opinion, if you were afraid of the job or didn't want to do the job you should have never walked through the recruiters’ door. Welcome to reality of war kiddos. Sometimes you have to man up and go through some shit to get that free college education.

Since when are soldiers not allowed opinions? Can you please point out in their contract where they aren't allowed to have them? I'd appreciate that. They MUST form opinions because they should not follow unlawful orders. By your logic, soldiers are blunt objects that should do what instructed. Should the mow down a town of civilians if ordered to? No, that is an unlawful order.

Now if you want to make claims about recruitment and retention. Since you love one person’s worthless anecdotal claims how about you educate yourself and learn about reality.


Military Recruiting, Retention Figures for August Announced - Associated Content

"oh we are hitting our recruiting goals, but that is after we lowered them and lowered standards"



edit: forget "72% of the troops want out of Iraq, as shown by Zogby. End of story." it isn't the point.

[hsmith]

Every solider WILL fight, because that is what they were ordered to do and that is what they signed up for.

Now, they might not believe in the cause, but that doesn't mean they have to support it. They will and do give the fight their all, but that doesn't mean they can't support leaving. This goes to soldiers wanting to get back on the field, even after being injured to fight with their unit.

Supporting leaving the area and stopping the war has nothing to do with them being a good solider and protecting this country. It doesn't mean they are "phony."

That is what you can't seem to grasp.