Media Matters, but not Truth....

[7960]

Originally Posted by hsmith

72% of the troops want out of Iraq, as shown by Zogby. End of story.

Hardly. All I can find is they interviewed 944 troops in "several" undisclosed locations.

Where? When? Who (not names, but what kinds of personnel)? If I walked around VMWare's campus right now and interviewed a hundred people in "undisclosed locations" I'm sure a majority would say the stock market is treating them FANTASTIC and hi-tech is booming!! Ask that same question on a lucent campus and you might get smacked in the face.

Did the surveyors get a random sample? I'm going to guess it wouldn't have been easy to get a good cross-section seeing as they're in a war zone and can't travel easily.

In other words, before we say "end of story" I'd like to know the facts on which the story is based.

[7960]

Originally Posted by hsmith

Supporting leaving the area and stopping the war has nothing to do with them being a good solider and protecting this country. It doesn't mean they are "phony."

Exactly.

Just like that is NOT what Rush said. He didn't call the soldiers who want to leave "phony."

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by 7960

Hardly. All I can find is they interviewed 944 troops in "several" undisclosed locations.

Where? When? Who (not names, but what kinds of personnel)? If I walked around VMWare's campus right now and interviewed a hundred people in "undisclosed locations" I'm sure a majority would say the stock market is treating them FANTASTIC and hi-tech is booming!! Ask that same question on a lucent campus and you might get smacked in the face.

Did the surveyors get a random sample? I'm going to guess it wouldn't have been easy to get a good cross-section seeing as they're in a war zone and can't travel easily.

In other words, before we say "end of story" I'd like to know the facts on which the story is based.

Fine. I'll concede that, that isn't even the point.

But to his silly assumption of calling them "phony" I call it poppycock. Soldiers wanting to return home and be out of a war zone has nothing to do with them being phony. It is the bantering of a keyboard warrior who can't do what others are doing and letting his delusional rantings blinded by nationalism get in the way of reality.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by hsmith

72% of the troops want out of Iraq, as shown by Zogby. End of story.

More troops unhappy with Bush's course in Iraq, poll finds - USATODAY.com

2006 Military Times Poll
13% of Troops think no troops should be Iraq. End of story.

Or like i said before we can both pull stats to prove out claims.

Or did you just skip that one.

You want to try that again?

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Grouch

More troops unhappy with Bush's course in Iraq, poll finds - USATODAY.com

2006 Military Times Poll
13% of Troops think no troops should be Iraq. End of story.

Or like i said before we can both pull stats to prove out claims.

Or did you just skip that one.

You want to try that again?

It isn't the point. You slandered all soldiers who want to leave Iraq and called them phony.

That is the point. They aren't phony.

Sorry you have to nitpick one little thing that isn't even the point. Good job even attempting to address core issues.

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by hsmith

Fine. I'll concede that, that isn't even the point.

But to his silly assumption of calling them "phony" I call it poppycock. Soldiers wanting to return home and be out of a war zone has nothing to do with them being phony. It is the bantering of a keyboard warrior who can't do what others are doing and letting his delusional rantings blinded by nationalism get in the way of reality.

THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID. He said that people who aren't in the army but pretend to be for the cameras and microphones are phony.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID. He said that people who aren't in the army but pretend to be for the cameras and microphones are phony.

we're saying "he"

do you mean Rush or Grouch?

because Grouch *DID* say that.

Originally Posted by Grouch

However I would personal go so far as to say that any soldier (especially since anyone who has enlisted in the last 3 years) who now wants out of Iraq are in fact phony soldiers not up the task in which they agreed to be a part of.

Rush did not.

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by hsmith

It isn't the point. You slandered all soldiers who want to leave Iraq and called them phony.

That is the point. They aren't phony.

Sorry you have to nitpick one little thing that isn't even the point. Good job even attempting to address core issues.

It's not the point but, AS YOU SAID, it's the end of the story? That's fucking amazing.

You're one awesome double talking s.o.b.

It's not slander when you knew the job you signed up for and now you don't have the stomach for it.

Any person at the end of their term who doesn't want to go back has that right to do so. They fullfilled their contract. The few that have signed up, have 2 years left and now Iraq is just too much for them and are begging to get out, those are phonies.

[Grouch]

I'd personally like to hear that all these active duty soldiers who want out of Iraq so badly are also seeking early discharges too.

If you don't want to do the job that you asked to do, then get out. Don't suck from the governments tit and collect a paycheck while begging for a new job.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Grouch

It's not the point but, AS YOU SAID, it's the end of the story? That's fucking amazing.

You're one awesome double talking s.o.b.

i conceded the point. I have no issue doing that. I may have been wrong and pointed that out. Anyone can find polls that give way to their point. Try and keep up.

It's not slander when you knew the job you signed up for and now you don't have the stomach for it.

Any person at the end of their term who doesn't want to go back has that right to do so. They fullfilled their contract. The few that have signed up, have 2 years left and now Iraq is just too much for them and are begging to get out, those are phonies.

ok kiddo, in the real world we understand there are stop gap measures which force people to go over long after the two years end.

call any soldier a phony to their face that would rather be home with their family and not in the desert fighting and they will gladly stomp you in the jaw.

Enjoy college.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID. He said that people who aren't in the army but pretend to be for the cameras and microphones are phony.

Grouch is calling soldiers who are fighting in Iraq but want the war to end phony soldiers.

Because soldiers can't think apparently

[Grouch]

Originally Posted by hsmith

i conceded the point. I have no issue doing that. I may have been wrong and pointed that out. Anyone can find polls that give way to their point. Try and keep up

Try again sweetheart, I pointed it out 3 pages ago and for some reason you just ignored it. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by hsmith

call any soldier a phony to their face that would rather be home with their family and not in the desert fighting and they will gladly stomp you in the jaw.

Enjoy college.

You're so eloquent Hsmith, but next time, try not to be so intellectually dishonest alright. No one said you have to like your job, but being to much of coward to finish it when you knew what to expect, AND signed up for it; is what we are talking about. If you’re still having trouble with the argument PM me I’ll hold your hand through it and help you along.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by six6ftr

Yes very true. I am seeing a mass exodus of what we call "first termers" while the "careeerist" tend to stay because of the years they have invested in the military but still, they are not happy about the situation we are currently in nor do they look forward to going back.

Most of them figure that it will be over soon and if things get worse, they will retire.

I am only speaking from a National Guard/Reserve stand point though.

There is always high turnover, the military will always needs lots of indians and a few chiefs. There is a small percentage of people that genuinely like being deployed. I would rather drink beer and get laid

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

Also, + @ the hypocrisy of people who'll defend the condemnation of MoveOn but not this

Equally ridiculous wastes of Congress' time.

both things are

[Joe_Cool]

Originally Posted by motivez

Also, + @ the hypocrisy of people who'll defend the condemnation of MoveOn but not this

Equally ridiculous wastes of Congress' time.

That's pathetic. I'm stunned at how transparently you'll defend blatant LIES because they happen to be coming from somebody who shares your political outlook.

moveon was running blatantly false and slanderous political ads DURING AN ELECTION on behalf of the (democrat) candidates they favored. And said democrats supported them (of course).

Rush Limbaugh called fakes fakes, and a bunch of morons COMPLETELY twisted it into something entirely unlike what he actually said, and then some more morons wasted time in Congress condemning him for what he didn't even fucking say.

And you pretend the situations are the same.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

That's pathetic. I'm stunned at how transparently you'll defend blatant LIES because they happen to be coming from somebody who shares your political outlook.

moveon was running blatantly false and slanderous political ads DURING AN ELECTION on behalf of the (democrat) candidates they favored. And said democrats supported them (of course).

Rush Limbaugh called fakes fakes, and a bunch of morons COMPLETELY twisted it into something entirely unlike what he actually said, and then some more morons wasted time in Congress condemning him for what he didn't even fucking say.

And you pretend the situations are the same.

its doesn't matter who is right or wrong here. The fact that congress gets involved is really unbelievable, they have much more important things to worry about.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by hsmith

It isn't the point. You slandered all soldiers who want to leave Iraq and called them phony.

That is the point. They aren't phony.

Sorry you have to nitpick one little thing that isn't even the point. Good job even attempting to address core issues.

Not to mention this is a poll of military personnel, not just troops stationed in Iraq. And yes, it is not the point and has nothing to do with the post subject.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

That's pathetic. I'm stunned at how transparently you'll defend blatant LIES because they happen to be coming from somebody who shares your political outlook.

moveon was running blatantly false and slanderous political ads DURING AN ELECTION on behalf of the (democrat) candidates they favored. And said democrats supported them (of course).

Rush Limbaugh called fakes fakes, and a bunch of morons COMPLETELY twisted it into something entirely unlike what he actually said, and then some more morons wasted time in Congress condemning him for what he didn't even fucking say.

And you pretend the situations are the same.

I think Congress should spend time doing something more important than making pointless resolutions condemning the speech of an American / American organizations.

You can disagree for political reasons, that's fine, though extremely hypocritical.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

Exactly. He's saying they liberals found this "soldier"............(emphasis) WHO LIED ABOUT WHO HE REALLY WAS............and keep parading THESE PHONY SOLDIERS in front of the media.

I'm not sure how it's possible to listen to the entire segment and come to any other conclusion, unless of course you want to

It's pretty easy to come to a different conclusion than the one the right is using to defend Rush when you read the transcript and listen to the audio.

The caller states: "The phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they're proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they're willing to sacrifice for the country."

In other words, the phony soldiers are the ones who are against the war in Iraq. Rush agrees with his statement by saying that they (real soldiers) joined to be in Iraq.

Saying he was using it as a lead doesn't change much of anything in my mind, especially given the fact that he's attacked the service of other military folks in the past simply because of their political opinions.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's pretty easy to come to a different conclusion than the one the right is using to defend Rush when you read the transcript and listen to the audio.

The caller states: "The phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they're proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they're willing to sacrifice for the country."

In other words, the phony soldiers are the ones who are against the war in Iraq. Rush agrees with his statement by saying that they (real soldiers) joined to be in Iraq.

Saying he was using it as a lead doesn't change much of anything in my mind, especially given the fact that he's attacked the service of other military folks in the past simply because of their political opinions.

Not that day, but Rush had also previously talked about 8 other phony soldiers that the liberals paraded in front of the media.

This is a witch hunt and the biggest clue is the fact that the people who attack him keep cutting off the part where he actually explains what he was talking about to make it SEEM like he's talking about any soldier who doesn't want to be there.