Does anyone have a summary of Lieberman's change in political viewpoints since 2000?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

I'd agree with this 100%.


I've never liked Lieberman.

I just find it funny how when I say things like that Bush isn't a real Republican, people on here before have said BUT LOLZ HE IS THE REPUBLICAN PREZIDENT, AND MOST REPUBLICANS LIKE HIM - HE IS A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN!!!! But now you're doing the same exact thing with Lieberman. Saying how he's not a "real" Democrat.

Bush didn't lose the primary

He lost a Democratic primary in a traditional Democratic state...he then turns AGAIN to try and hurt his own party, like the past times he has hurt his party wasn't enough...that is why he is not a real Democrat, he's a real political hack.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

This is bullshit. The Democratic party has had more changes to their agenda than Lieberman has. He just hasn't kept changing his views to toe the party line.

Trying to paint him as a flip-flopper or whatever is rubbish. The Democratic party changes their stances FAR more than Lieberman ever has.

His one supposed virtue of why some indepedents support him is because he doesn't flip-flop...now thats exposed as a lie

You can't have your cake and eat it too

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

His one supposed virtue of why some indepedents support him is because he doesn't flip-flop...now thats exposed as a lie

You can't have your cake and eat it too

"Exposed as a lie"...

I'm gonna be honest here, and I don't mean this as a personal attack.

Thorgrim, you are the most avid mainstream extremist liberal I know of. Quite often I question whether you really hold your views or if you're just trying to get a reaction out of people. You're personal views follow whatever the extremists are saying at the moment.

For example, I can recall times on other forums where you agreed with Saddam torturing his people. Now, don't get me wrong perhaps at the time you really believed that (this is only one issue, I assume you no longer hold this view), however, your views on issues change more often than any person I have ever had the liberty of speaking to online. Everytime you fault Lieberman for being a "flip-flopper" I cringe.

And I'm not saying this to be rude or flame you. You generally bring mature debate and back up your current beleifs at the time. I'm saying all this because Lieberman may have changed his stance on some issues, but you of all people should the one to cut him some slack.

Lieberman has stayed more hardlined on his issues than the Democratic party and certainly far more steady on his views than the extremists. All politicians change their views while in office. You'll be hardpressed to find one politician who hasn't. Lieberman has stayed focused and steady on his morals and issues far more than most other Senators. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone so focused in the limelight who has stayed so steady.

Fault Lieberman for holding a few conservative views, fault him for changing his agenda after his party kicked him out and attacked him, you can even fault him for hurting his party. But seriously, give it a rest in trying to prove he's been a flip-flopper.

[Thorgrim]

1) You can't end your sentence in prepositions

"Thorgrim, you are the most avid mainstream extremist liberal I know of."

2) I can't believe you live in NJ and I'm the most extremist liberal you know of...I can't walk down my street without finding someone more liberal than me, yes I've spent a lot of time where I was a liberal, but even in Catholic High School there were people more liberal than me

I believe private companies should own property, the means of production, set their own staff and policies. I am completely against the workers owning every company and voting on who their bosses are.

I do not believe in rampant judicial activism, only in the moderated belief that we should follow the 1000 year old english common law policy of letting judges make case law when legislators refuse to act or act in way that violates another law they refuse to repeal

I am against slave reparations, want an quicker end to AA, and believe in more of a Juan Williams view of the black community (a more critical one) than an Al Sharpton view, and as a resident of North Philadelphia, I am not speaking from the ivory tower on this...

I do not believe there is a MORAL case to be made for certain types of abortions, however they have a legal right

I do not think Bill Clinton was a particularly great president, though he certainly was a good one compared to the lot of them

I do not believe in being soft on criminal punishments because they are victims of society

I do not believe ANYMORE gun laws should be passed, except research into ballistic fingerprinting technology funded by the US government, I also do not believe the 2nd amendment is meaningless or collectivist

I believe deregulation that started with Carter has many plus sides

I am not a radical environmentalist who sides with PETA on animal treatment, or extremists on stopping all growth, I merely believe in Global Warming and that we should adress it

I do not believe in 50%+ tax rates for the average American

I do not believe in giant welfare handouts to all that would create enormous welfare states

In those ways, and others I can't think of right now, I am very much to the right of "extremist liberals"

[Thorgrim]

On flip flopping:

Saddam had as much right to torture rebels as the British (against Scots/French/Irish/etc) and almost every other western power has for hundreds of years.

The Middle East was no playground full of helpful neighbors, and under Middle Eastern custom and culture, he was mostly following his neighbors in many of his acts. If he did not, well then 3,000 people a day would be dying a month, the rate was not that high, because no one suggested that Saddam killed a million civilians, almost all of his accounts are inflated to include Kurdish and Shia rebels who were attacking his state's armed forces, what were they supposed to do, surrender or shoot back?

I did not flip flop, I stand by my decision, but changes others as I learn new facts that radically change the premise, not as I believe it will gain me some political position