outsourcing

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Where did I blame government for everything?
I said its primarily about resource distribution and comparative advantage and it is. Low skilled labor goes to cheap countries because they have an abundance of labor, over here we don't. Part of it is due to a high cost of doing business here and you can not ignore the ridiculous burdens placed on companies by our federal government, ignoring that or downplaying it is not looking at the entire picture.

Also keep in mind that for high end manufacturing many companies are coming back to the US for our quality labor. The falling dollar is also forcing many companies to rethink their outsourcing plans and many companies are building new plants in the US or adding capacity to existing facilities.

High cost of doing business here yea like worker pensions, high wages, vacations, 401k plans, safety rules, enviromental laws. These are the things that make us a first world country allows us to be civilized. These add cost but that is the burden of a first world country but to put us in competition with third world countries strip us of these benefits that we have worked hard to gain and make us a third world country. Our standard of living goes down to meet theirs until there is a level playing field and even competition but our standard of living is none the less down down down.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

High cost of doing business here yea like worker pensions, high wages, vacations, 401k plans, safety rules, enviromental laws. These are the things that make us a first world country allows us to be civilized. These add cost but that is the burden of a first world country but to put us in competition with third world countries strip us of these benefits that we have worked hard to gain and make us a third world country. Our standard of living goes down to meet theirs until there is a level playing field and even competition but our standard of living is none the less down down down.

High wages for low wage jobs or medium wage jobs hurts us substantially.

Please tell me where I said safety rules are bad? Please tell me where I said 401ks were bad?

The biggest cost is our convuluted tax laws. We need to completely eliminate the corporate income tax.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

We need to completely eliminate the corporate income tax.

How in the world will this stop or significantly slow down outsourcing when the main problem is NOT taxes but consumerism?

And if your going to tell me this will lead to greater job expansions, better economy etc, please prove. I can understand if you want to lower it, but there is a point of diminishing returns where we actually lose more money than we are getting back. Moreover, corporate taxes are a significant portion of tax dollars collected, if there is a shortfall who fronts the bill?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

How in the world will this stop or significantly slow down outsourcing when the main problem is NOT taxes but consumerism?

And if your going to tell me this will lead to greater job expansions, better economy etc, please prove. I can understand if you want to lower it, but there is a point of diminishing returns where we actually lose more money than we are getting back. Moreover, corporate taxes are a significant portion of tax dollars collected, if there is a shortfall who fronts the bill?

Corporate taxes are substantial but its not a large part of tax collections. Look it up, its about 10% of total federal receipts.

Because corporate taxes are a big issue for all corporations.

[AVengeance]

When the unions and their members got protections from the government to keep those idiots from losing their jobs for not doing their jobs, that's when we got screwed.

If someone walks off their job, I don't care if they're a member of the boy scouts or the UAW, the employer should have every right to can their ass and hire someone more WILLING TO WORK.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by 7960

I think outsourcing *CAN* be beneficial.

But I also fully admit I've dropped services and products because their help desk is in india/malasia and I can't understand a fucking word those people say.

I dropped Allstate auto insurance partly because when you call them you get a call center in India they literally can not do anything to help you. Even if you fax them documents it goes to a processing center in India and it takes days for them to scan the stuff in and get it to the appropriate person. Might as well send it via snail mail at that point. In this case, Outsourcing FTL. Bad business decision. In other cases it makes sense.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by Publius

You have no understanding of comparative advantage, do you?

If your talking about dirt cheap labor with little safety and enviromental costs and no benefits then yea I know an advantage I see it.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

High wages for low wage jobs or medium wage jobs hurts us substantially.

Please tell me where I said safety rules are bad? Please tell me where I said 401ks were bad?

The biggest cost is our convuluted tax laws. We need to completely eliminate the corporate income tax.

The wages are not high they are just higher that third world labor being paid subsistence wages only with very few benefits and not as strict safety and enviromental rules for their companies, which are costs that our companies must bare.
I never said that you said safety rules, and 401ks were bad they are just costs that are higher for our companies. We could do away with those costs so we could compete fairly, but that would never happen here unless hell broke lose. That is one thing that makes us a first world country our companies have for the most part strict safety rules and the workers have vacations, pensions, 401k plans, sick leave, and our companies have enviormental laws to abide by. They all add to the cost of our products and labor but make us civilized and a first world country and most were won by those terrible unions. Put us in competition with third world countries and we lose them. GM workers are losing benefits right now.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

AND how easily they forget the protections our government give them from being sued and other legal protections, not to mention massive loopholes that allow some huge companies not to pay any tax at all. Oh and there is all the incentives we give to small business to help them grow. Many of these protections and incentives you don't see in other countries.

Our corporations should thank their lucky fucking stars they are in America, as much as free marketers like to shit on our government, they sure do like all the perks they get from them and what they do with all that money the get back or the protections allow them to generate? Take it out of our economy and cry about our big bad government

No doubt. They use this country to get rich, and then when they are rich enough to move operations some where else they turn their back on the place that made their operation possible in the first place. Its really just another stab in the back for the people who made their millions or billions even possible.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

The wages are not high they are just higher that third world labor being paid subsistence wages only with very few benefits and not as strict safety and enviromental rules for their companies, which are costs that our companies must bare.
I never said that you said safety rules, and 401ks were bad they are just costs that are higher for our companies. We could do away with those costs so we could compete fairly, but that would never happen here unless hell broke lose. That is one thing that makes us a first world country our companies have for the most part strict safety rules and the workers have vacations, pensions, 401k plans, sick leave, and our companies have enviormental laws to abide by. They all add to the cost of our products and labor but make us civilized and a first world country and most were won by those terrible unions. Put us in competition with third world countries and we lose them. GM workers are losing benefits right now.

UAW wages are WAY too high, the benefits and wages are not dictated by the market, they're dictated by some union leader which is why they're now giving all kinds of concessions. They're way overpaid for the work they do, period.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Our skilled mfg is gone primarily because of unions.

We're still the number one mfg of aircraft in the world and foreign car companies are employing hundreds of thousands of americans at US facilities.

You trying to say our aircraft isn't manufactured by unions?

[goldenponderbob]

This problem has nothing to do with private sector unions.

China, and other countries, can build an identicle "anything" and sell it in Chicago cheaper than a competing US firm, even if the labor cost to the US firm was zero.

When was the last time you patronized a locally owned hardware store or service station instead of the national chain. You knew the prices would be higher at the mom and pop place, but the long term cost of going to the national chain made shopping at local store the better deal.

The national chain is committed to driving mom and pop out of business. They know they will eventually "control the field" and set the quality and price according to their rules.

That's why China can sell a product cheaper than the US firm. They may have to wait until 2020 to recover their investment but eventually they will control the field. Their government's role is to guarantee they can tolerate the delay.

No US firm has that. Instead, they have shareholders who need to see an upswing in corporate revenue by the end of every business day. Tomorrow they may have their dough on some other number.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

If your talking about dirt cheap labor with little safety and enviromental costs and no benefits then yea I know an advantage I see it.

So what you mean by that answer is, "no, I don't know what comparative advantage is."

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

You trying to say our aircraft isn't manufactured by unions?

I am?

My point is/was that the US can manufacture things better/cheaper than a lot of places, these positions are typically highly skilled/trained labor.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by Publius

So what you mean by that answer is, "no, I don't know what comparative advantage is."

I know that our labor and companies have to compete on a uneven playing field that is not fair. No matter what bull shit is thrown around the facts are the facts. To many people instead of using their heads and logic depend on formulas and academia to explain what is going on when it is as plain as the nose on your head. I don't need to know what comparitive advantage is to know what is going on.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

UAW wages are WAY too high, the benefits and wages are not dictated by the market, they're dictated by some union leader which is why they're now giving all kinds of concessions. They're way overpaid for the work they do, period.

In America unions have been part of the formula for deciding wages for ever that is why we don't work seven days a week and companies cannot work children, and I think UAW wages and benefits are close to the same as what Toyota in America pays their workers.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

In America unions have been part of the formula for deciding wages for ever that is why we don't work seven days a week and companies cannot work children, and I think UAW wages and benefits are close to the same as what Toyota in America pays their workers.

Not even close, the entire pay package for american union workers at GM is 74/hr the pay package for toyota is 49/hr. Big difference.

[AlwaysBurning]

I admit that most of what I know about outsourcing comes from the movie Outsourced (review), but something tells me they did their research. Is it true that in call center/customer service work India is 8 heads for 1 and China is 20 heads for 1? I want to outsource my own job.... If I could pay someone 1/20 of what I make to do my job that would free me up to get another job.