Dallas minister to congregation: vote Christian, not Mitt Romney

Publius · 10-18-2007, 11:16 AM

Dallas minister: Vote for a Christian, not Mitt Romney | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Latest News

A prominent Dallas minister told his congregation that if they wanted to elect a Christian to the White House, Republican Mitt Romney wasn't qualified.

Dr. Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church of Dallas, said Mormonism is a false religion and that Mr. Romney was not a Christian.

"Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise," Dr. Jeffress said in a sermon on Sept. 30. "Even though he talks about Jesus as his Lord and savior, he is not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormonism is a cult."

Some in the large crowd began to applaud as Dr. Jeffress continued with his remarks.

"What really distresses me is some of my ministerial friends and even leaders in our convention are saying, 'Oh, well, he talks about Jesus, we talk about Jesus. What's the big deal,' " he said. "It is a big deal if anybody names another way to be saved except through Jesus Christ."

Mr. Romney's campaign said Wednesday that despite such attitudes by Christian conservatives, the former Massachusetts governor has won the support of many conservatives and that his religion is not a political liability.

"Despite the differences in theology, voters across the country are more concerned with whether or not Governor Romney has the same values that they do," said Romney campaign spokeswoman Gail Gitcho. "We've found as we campaign throughout the country, voters don't care what kind of church Governor Romney goes to, but they care that he has faith and that his values are as American as anybody's."

Christian conservatives across the country are grappling over how they feel about Mr. Romney and his religion. He would be the first Mormon elected president.

Mr. Romney won over some conservatives by taking a stand against abortion and has been endorsed by conservative leader Bob Jones III.

Tuesday night on CNN's Larry King Live, popular Houston minister Joel Osteen said Mr. Romney's Mormon faith wouldn't affect whether he supported him or not.

"I don't think that that would affect me," Mr. Osteen said. "I've heard him say that he believes Jesus is his savior, just like I do. I've studied it deeply, and maybe people don't agree with me, but I like to look at a person's value and what they stand for.

But Dr. Jeffress said colleagues who support Mr. Romney should not confuse morality with Christianity.

"I have conservative friends who are saying, well, he believes in Jesus, we believe in Jesus, let's just hold hands and sing kumbaya," he said. "It doesn't work that way. If a person is supporting Romney, that's fine. But don't confuse him with being a Christian."

Dr. Jeffress also said Christian conservatives were compromising the values used to back presidential candidates over the past decade.

"It's a little hypocritical for the last eight years to be talking about how important it is for us to elect a Christian president and then turn around and endorse a non-Christian," he said. "Christian conservatives are going to have to decide whether having a Christian president is really important or not."

Mr. Romney and other Republican presidential contenders will make their pitches to Christian conservatives this weekend at the Values Voter Summit in Washington.

Tony Perkins, head of the conservative Family Research Council, acknowledged recently that Mr. Romney was making inroads with evangelicals.

"He stresses his policy positions which, in my opinion, have been the strongest on the core social issues," he said.

Mr. Perkins said all the GOP candidates had positives.

"If you look across the field of candidates, there's a lot to like, a little bit with each one of them," he said. "If we could do a mix and match, it would be great."

As fucked up as it is, people like this intolerant, hate-filled minister are why Romney will not win the Republican nomination. I hate that a person's religion is the most important factor in determining a presidential candidate for these people, they've become so insulated from the real world that they think anyone but a fundamentalist Christian will make the U.S. entirely atheist.

I'm not really surprised that it is a Baptist preacher saying it though ... I don't know about Baptists in other areas, but it seems like Baptists around here believe ONLY their brand of Christianity is anywhere near true, and (to use this guy's church as an example) if you go to any church aside from the First Baptist Church of Dallas on San Jacinto Street in Dallas, TX, you're practicing a false religion and going to hell.

On a personal note, I went to Kindergarten & 1st grade at First Baptist Academy, a subsidiary school of this church ... I'm so glad my parents got me out of there before any permanent damage was done.

Linzyhop · 10-18-2007, 11:45 AM

yup. Baptists even go so far to say Catholics aren't Christians.

um. excuse me. they were the first Christians.

fucking idiots.

just goes to show you how the majority of the US population cares more about fucking idiotic fundamentals that have nothing to do with politics or how someone can govern a country.

have a pagan run for office and see how quickly the country starts burning...

jesus christ.

Scrum · 10-18-2007, 11:46 AM

Isn't that a big no-no?

I didn't think churches were allowed to make political statements due to their tax exemption (which we should eliminate anyway)?

kinggovernor · 10-18-2007, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Isn't that a big no-no?

I didn't think churches were allowed to make political statements due to their tax exemption (which we should eliminate anyway)?

IRS will probably be making a visit

Publius · 10-18-2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Isn't that a big no-no?

I didn't think churches were allowed to make political statements due to their tax exemption (which we should eliminate anyway)?

I didn't even think about that, but you're absolutely right.

motivez · 10-18-2007, 02:45 PM

I'm pretty sure they're allowed to make political statements insofar as it goes to voting for people who match their values, I think the line is drawn when it comes to using the church as a way to endorse / denounce other candidates, fundraise, get people to polls, etc..

Publius · 10-18-2007, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'm pretty sure they're allowed to make political statements insofar as it goes to voting for people who match their values, I think the line is drawn when it comes to using the church as a way to endorse / denounce other candidates, fundraise, get people to polls, etc..

i'd say this counts as denouncing Romney.

hsmith · 10-18-2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

Isn't that a big no-no?

I didn't think churches were allowed to make political statements due to their tax exemption (which we should eliminate anyway)?

Why? He is giving a religious view point to why he doesn't make a good candidate. Seems legitimate and fine to me.

Romney has no chance due to the fact he is a morman. The bible belt won't go for it.

motivez · 10-18-2007, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

i'd say this counts as denouncing Romney.

I wasn't trying to suggest that they weren't, just answering Scrum's question about it being a no-no.

Scrum · 10-18-2007, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'm pretty sure they're allowed to make political statements insofar as it goes to voting for people who match their values, I think the line is drawn when it comes to using the church as a way to endorse / denounce other candidates, fundraise, get people to polls, etc..

I see what your saying, but isn't there a fine line here?

He is saying "Vote Christian" and "Romney isn't a Christian". There isn't much difference between that and just saying "Don't vote for Romney".

Lets just end tax exempt status for churches and they can endorse or denounce whoever they want.

motivez · 10-18-2007, 09:53 PM

I'm not sure I've ever heard a good argument for tax exempt status for churches

AVengeance · 10-19-2007, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

...Catholics...were the first Christians.

fucking idiots.
...

Linzyhop · 10-19-2007, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by AVengeance

and what pray tell are you confused about???

Publius · 10-19-2007, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

I'm not sure I've ever heard a good argument for tax exempt status for churches

In order that churches are not a slave to the state and cannot be persecuted by the state through excessive and/or targeted taxation, they were given tax exempt status. This worked just fine when the vast majority of pastors/preachers actually cared more about God than money, but in this day and age the greedy, hypocritical fucks by and large use the church's tax exempt status as a shelter from paying taxes.

kinggovernor · 10-19-2007, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

and what pray tell are you confused about???

roman catholics were the first christians?

AVengeance · 10-19-2007, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Publius

In order that churches are not a slave to the state and cannot be persecuted by the state through excessive and/or targeted taxation, they were given tax exempt status. This worked just fine when the vast majority of pastors/preachers actually cared more about God than money, but in this day and age the greedy, hypocritical fucks by and large use the church's tax exempt status as a shelter from paying taxes.

And now it's a convenient tool for both sides. For the greedy megamall churches, it's a nice tax shelter. For the government, it's a way to keep the churches from spouting too much damaging opinion. The government NEEDS the people to worship the State instead of God. People that have God realize they don't need the State so much.

Ardentfrost · 10-19-2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

roman catholics were the first christians?

Yes

That is, if you believe them when they claim the original apostles were just roman catholics before the term existed

Linzyhop · 10-19-2007, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

roman catholics were the first christians?

um catholics were the first christians yes.

before the reformation the only christians were catholics.

how is it people don't know this?????

Publius · 10-19-2007, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

um catholics were the first christians yes.

before the reformation the only christians were catholics.

how is it people don't know this?????

The Catholic Church may have been the first organized, official "Church" of Christianity, but the Gnostic movement predates the early church in many respects.