The Truth About Jena?

[lew]

Originally Posted by bheld

That's mostly indicative of systemic discrimination based on socioeconomic status. You're talking about two totally different situations but I think that race also plays a role in both cases. Asians benefit from the "model minority" stereotype and we all know how black people are portrayed. These are things that operate on a subconscious level so it's hard to pin down exactly how much they affect decisions. There must be something to it though or else advertising wouldn't be a billion dollar business.

It's not about economic status either.


The Chinese have never had an equal playing field in countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand, or Vietnam, yet the Chinese minority in these countries ( five percent of the population ) owns most of these nations’ total investments in a variety of key industries.

In Malaysia for example, the Chinese minority suffers official discrimination at the hands of the Malaysian government, and yet their incomes are still twice the national average.

And it's not just Chinese, either.

Italians in Argentina were subject to discrimination but ultimately outperformed native Argentines.

Other examples could be made about Jews, Armenians, and East Indians.

And here, the Japanese were so badly discriminated against that 120,000 of them were confined in detention camps for much of World War II. Yet by 1959 Japanese households had equaled those of whites in income, and by 1969 they were earning one-third more.

[ballz2wallz]

Apparently John Edwards finds it tough being a white male in this day and age lol

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by lew

Taken as an average across the entire country, blacks earn less than the average of whites. This is true.

So then your complete bullshit comment was wrong then

Whites earns less than Chinese and Japanese, on average. Are we to assume that there is a pro-Asian, anti-white bias in this country? Because that is what you were implying by saying that "whites make more than blacks, women, and minorities."

Again where is your proof? That for the same or similar jobs white MALES (not white people in general because white females also make less) make less on average than others?

Your implying is wrong, no where did I make that assumption. I am insulted you would insinuate I think white people have some kind of bias against minorities - I do not. I am just going by the statistical data I see, its a fact that white males make more than others.

[bheld]

Originally Posted by lew

It's not about economic status either.


The Chinese have never had an equal playing field in countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand, or Vietnam, yet the Chinese minority in these countries ( five percent of the population ) owns most of these nations’ total investments in a variety of key industries.

In Malaysia for example, the Chinese minority suffers official discrimination at the hands of the Malaysian government, and yet their incomes are still twice the national average.

And it's not just Chinese, either.

Italians in Argentina were subject to discrimination but ultimately outperformed native Argentines.

Other examples could be made about Jews, Armenians, and East Indians.

And here, the Japanese were so badly discriminated against that 120,000 of them were confined in detention camps for much of World War II. Yet by 1959 Japanese households had equaled those of whites in income, and by 1969 they were earning one-third more.

You need to look at immigration policies and see what types of people were being let into the country in the mid 1900s. It wasn't a lot of poor people, I'll tell you that.

[lew]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

So then your complete bullshit comment was wrong then

Asians are a minority. They make more than whites on average. So, yes, your comment was bullshit.

[lew]

Originally Posted by bheld

You need to look at immigration policies and see what types of people were being let into the country in the mid 1900s. It wasn't a lot of poor people, I'll tell you that.

Poverty has NOTHING to do with it.


On standardized tests Asians in the lowest tax bracket regularly outperform blacks in the highest tax bracket. It all has to do with culture. Not discrimination. Not poverty.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by lew

Asians are a minority. They make more than whites on average. So, yes, your comment was bullshit.

Yet again where is your proof (third time asking)? Articles from reasonable sources with data? I'm guess you can't find any - talking about being full of shit

[lew]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Yet again where is your proof (third time asking)? Articles from reasonable sources with data? I'm guess you can't find any - talking about being full of shit

Funny that the person who has posted no validation about their information would like me to post validation of my information.

[7960]

Originally Posted by lew

Asians are a minority. They make more than whites on average.

They make more than whites DOING THE SAME JOB? Or they make more over the entire population of white/asians?

[lew]

Originally Posted by 7960

They make more than whites DOING THE SAME JOB? Or they make more over the entire population of white/asians?

Population average.


I don't know where to find information regarding the same exact job.

[7960]

Originally Posted by lew

Population average.


I don't know where to find information regarding the same exact job.

so then you have no idea if he was right or wrong when he said "they have the burden of getting more money for the same job than minorities and women" but you went ahead and called bullshit anyway

[lew]

Originally Posted by 7960

so then you have no idea if he was right or wrong when he said "they have the burden of getting more money for the same job than minorities and women" but you went ahead and called bullshit anyway

Link to where white men get paid more than minorities or women for the same exact job?

[lew]

I mean, shit, if we're just going to post "stuff", I have proof that not only do whites not make more than blacks for the same job, but blacks actually MAKE MORE.

In my office, I have 3 coworkers. All of our job titles are the same and our workload is the same. We have the same jobs. Myself and a black coworker came on at the same exact time, over 5 years ago. He makes more than I do. For the same job.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by lew

Funny that the person who has posted no validation about their information would like me to post validation of my information.

Thats because anyone not blind to their ideological theory has seen many reports about this:

From Indiana University

The African-American Quest for Economic Justice

And we must not forget the importance of equal pay. While we have made progress over the past 30 years, women still earn only 74 cents for every dollar earned by a man; African-American women earn only 65 cents; Hispanic women earn only 58 cents.

From Brown:

Rhode Island Racial and Ethnic Minorities Disparities Project

Bradbury, Katharine L. “Education and Wages in the 1980s and 1990s: Are all Groups Moving Up Together?” New England Economic Review (2002): 19-46.

Minority men and minority women, however, were at a real wage disadvantage compared to their white counterparts. Finally, minority-White wage disparity ratios in men didn’t change, due to parallel real wage losses, whereas the disparity ratio grew among women, since white women experienced greater real wage gains than minority women. There is also discussion of how changes in educational wage premiums differ for blacks and Hispanics. The authors conclude with possible explanations for the differential payoffs to education across racial demographic groups.

Inequity

The Equal Pay Act of 1963, determined that it is illegal to pay women lower rates for the same job strictly on the basis of their sex. Although the pay gap between men and women narrowed significantly in the decades following the decision, statistics have shown that pay parity has not been reached.

According to the 2006 Census Bureau, women on average earn 77 cents for every dollar paid to their male counterparts. For minority women, the wage gap worsens as African-American women make 66 cents, Hispanic-American women make 55 cents and Asian-American women make 80 cents.

Here lets drill down to the Science Field:

The Scientist :

In the life sciences the average median salary for white men is $80,000, compared to $72,000 for Hispanics, $65,000 for African Americans, and $65,000 for women, according to the most recent figures from the Commission on Professionals in Science and Technology.

Now your turn....for the FOURTH TIME where is your proof?

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by lew

Myself and a black coworker came on at the same exact time, over 5 years ago. He makes more than I do. For the same job.

Probably because instead of wasting his time posting on a forum site he is doing work?

If your gonna be a smart ass I can be one too..and take note of my prior post, especially the last quote it shows women and minorities making less for the same job

[lew]

Nothing you posted shows disparities between races for the same job.


They are population averages and there are averages over fields. Fields can cover a multitude of jobs. Still have seen no evidence of two people with the same exact job with a white man making more than black man.

[lew]

From your same link:

Many economists argue that women and minorities tend to be newer in their fields and therefore have less experience, so are naturally paid less than more experienced, senior men. Once women and minorities have been in the workforce as long as men have, these scholars say, there will be no salary gap. They also claim that women and minorities are overwhelmingly drawn to fields that historically pay less than fields to which white men flock, or they may work in less prestigious institutions.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by lew

Nothing you posted shows disparities between races for the same job.


They are population averages and there are averages over fields. Fields can cover a multitude of jobs. Still have seen no evidence of two people with the same exact job with a white man making more than black man.

I guess I should expect something like that from a libertarian - ok Lew, you believe what you believe and I will believe what I do, we are obviously not getting anything constructive out of this

[lew]

So, you started out with the claim that whites make more than minorities for the same exact job.


I called bullshit.


You failed to post anything that backed up your claims. The only thing you posted said that on average, blacks make less than white men - which I agreed with. Not for "same exact job" but on average, nationally.


But what does that mean? Especially since Asians make more than whites on average, nationally.

[lew]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

I guess I should expect something like that from a libertarian - ok Lew, you believe what you believe and I will believe what I do, we are obviously not getting anything constructive out of this

ok, thanks for completely ignoring my points