"Don't tase me bro" Cops cleared - Page 3

Stylerod · 10-25-2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

SINCE THEY'RE GIVEN THE AUTHORITY BY THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE EVENT.

Can you at least try to be intellectually honest here?

Just to humor him:

His mic was cut off by the people running the Q&A. They asked him to step away from the mic. He did not. Then the police were asked to escort him out. I guess you think the police didn't like his statements (he never asked any questions, you see. He made statements in the form of questions. He never allowed Kerry to answer anything and when Kerry tried to answer he shouted over him and told him he wasn't finished talking) and rushed him?

7960 · 10-25-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by hsmith

Am I purvey to the information the police have on this matter? All I have is a limited video of the event.

So you're admitting you're commenting on things that you don't know shit about?

Wow. It usually isn't this easy.

THe whole "thin blue line" phenomenon is very real and police are advocates of watching each others backs. Sorry if I call into question an investigation done by their own department.

Before you call the investigation into question how about you learn more facts behind it? You're implying there was "thin blue line" mentality when just sentences above you admit to not having all the information.

double

After the abuses in Virginia by police officers of lawful gun owners and the "investigations" that follow those, it is hard to trust any investigation.

What does virginia police have to do with University of Florida campus police?

Publius · 10-25-2007, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Scrum

You hash that out later. Arguing or fighting with an officer isn't going to get you anything at that moment.

Well....anything other than a zap from a taser or a baton upside the head.

I certainly don't think they are infallible, but they do and they carry the weight of the law until you get in front of a judge.

His post suggests that that police were absolutely correct, and questioning them is idiotic. I agree that resisting at the time is not the proper choice (because you'll likely get a beat down for "resisting an officer" ... a charge that would stand even if it is determined the officers were in the wrong), but from the way he is phrasing his posts it implies that EVER questioning police activity, even after the fact, is idiotic.

7960 · 10-25-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Publius

You're suggesting with this post that you believe police authority and police officers are infallible. That frightens me a little, I must admit.

No I'm not. I'm saying if you're in my house and I ask you to leave you have no right to refuse, even if you think my reason for asking you to leave is poor.

When UF campus police asked him to leave he had no choice.

Why should I not have the right to determine that another person is acting in a wrongful manner, but that person has the right to determine that I am acting in a wrongful manner just because he has a badge?

It's not because he has a badge. It's because he's acting on behalf of the university and he asked you to leave. If you're in the mall and mall security asks you to leave you do not have the right to expect an answer to your "why?" You only have the right to leave or be removed.

Scrum · 10-25-2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Just to humor him:

His mic was cut off by the people running the Q&A. They asked him to step away from the mic. He did not. Then the police were asked to escort him out. I guess you think the police didn't like his statements (he never asked any questions, you see. He made statements in the form of questions. He never allowed Kerry to answer anything and when Kerry tried to answer he shouted over him and told him he wasn't finished talking) and rushed him?

He didn't rush the stage.

Publius · 10-25-2007, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

No I'm not. I'm saying if you're in my house and I ask you to leave you have no right to refuse, even if you think my reason for asking you to leave is poor.

When UF campus police asked him to leave he had no choice.

But you're suggesting that the police were absolutely in the right, when in reality this is at best a gray area Constitutionally.

It's not because he has a badge. It's because he's acting on behalf of the university and he asked you to leave. If you're in the mall and mall security asks you to leave you do not have the right to expect an answer to your "why?" You only have the right to leave or be removed.

You're comparing apples to oranges. A public forum at a public university is different from privately owned corporate property. This statement also applies to your first sentence in the post I'm replying to, btw.

Stylerod · 10-25-2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Scrum

He didn't rush the stage.

Where did I say that?

Stylerod · 10-25-2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Publius

But you're suggesting that the police were absolutely in the right, when in reality this is at best a gray area Constitutionally.

It's not gray in the least....

hsmith · 10-25-2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

So you're admitting you're commenting on things that you don't know shit about?

Wow. It usually isn't this easy.

you act as if you have the information and you know the truth behind the matter. Sorry I don't place 100% trust into people with authority, because gosh they just happen to abuse it. I guess I should just take everything at face value when the police say it, because they have never been known to lie, falsify information, or break the law. They are police, they can do no wrong.

Originally Posted by 7960

Before you call the investigation into question how about you learn more facts behind it? You're implying there was "thin blue line" mentality when just sentences above you admit to not having all the information.

double

Apparently you have all the information

Originally Posted by 7960

What does virginia police have to do with University of Florida campus police?

Maybe the fact that investigations and the recommendations can be bogus

Here I will lay it out for you: Police investigate themselves and find nothing wrong. It would be like the IRS asking your father to investigate your tax returns in an audit, no conflict of interest there

Conflict of interest, it is as simple as that.

Now continue your condescending manner of responding.

Publius · 10-25-2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Where did I say that?

He never allowed Kerry to answer anything and when Kerry tried to answer he shouted over him and told him he wasn't finished talking) and rushed him?

I get what you were actually saying, but the way you phrased the sentence was awkward, so I see where he got what he thought you said.

Publius · 10-25-2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

It's not gray in the least....

Yes, it is. Go read the link I posted. A Q&A session is in part a public forum, so it is a gray area under the law as it stands.

7960 · 10-25-2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Publius

His post suggests...

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm explicitly saying...........if you are on someone else's property and the police ask you to leave you MUST leave (unless the owner says you don't have to, which obviously isn't the case here).

... I agree that resisting at the time is not the proper choice

Me too...I agree.

... his posts it implies that EVER questioning police activity, even after the fact, is idiotic.

Where did I say "after the fact"? I did not say or even imply it. I said if police ask you to leave, leave. Question them after the fact all you want, but like a wise man said, "resisting at the time is not the proper choice."

Scrum · 10-25-2007, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Publius

I get what you were actually saying, but the way you phrased the sentence was awkward, so I see where he got what he thought you said.

Yeah, I re-read it a few times and now I see he was talking about the cops and not the kid.

7960 · 10-25-2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Scrum

He didn't rush the stage.

Watch the video. The cops are right behind him. Witnesses say he DID rush the mic which meant he was moving quickly toward the stage as well. The cops are right behind him because of the scene HE created in his movement toward the mic/stage.

But why are you still talking? You already said you don't know the facts of what you're talking about.

Scrum · 10-25-2007, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

Watch the video. The cops are right behind him. Witnesses say he DID rush the mic which meant he was moving quickly toward the stage as well. The cops are right behind him because of the scene HE created in his movement toward the mic/stage.

But why are you still talking? You already said you don't know the facts of what you're talking about.

huh?

The kid didn't rush the stage. It's right there in the video.

I think you quoted the wrong person about that last part.

hsmith · 10-25-2007, 10:49 AM

My issue is you can't let the police investigate themselves. There is a conflict of interest, you can't have that in an investigation. Even the "internal affairs" is a police unit, the regular units have animosity towards them and make it difficult to get the full picture on the story.

hsmith · 10-25-2007, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Scrum

huh?

The kid didn't rush the stage. It's right there in the video.

I think you quoted the wrong person about that last part.

he has all the information, watch out

7960 · 10-25-2007, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Publius

But you're suggesting that the police were absolutely in the right, when in reality this is at best a gray area Constitutionally.

No I'm not. I'm saying when the police told him to leave he had to leave. He can bitch about being removed afterwards but AT THAT TIME he had to leave. Well, I guess he could have requested a meeting with the people running the event but (a) it would have been a request, and (b) they were the ones who had his mic cut so it probably wouldn't have gone so well.

Publius · 10-25-2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

No I'm not. I'm saying when the police told him to leave he had to leave. He can bitch about being removed afterwards but AT THAT TIME he had to leave. Well, I guess he could have requested a meeting with the people running the event but (a) it would have been a request, and (b) they were the ones who had his mic cut so it probably wouldn't have gone so well.

Yet you see nothing wrong with them being cleared of wrongdoing by other cops, and are curious why we have a problem with cops investigating cops.

I don't have a solution, unfortunately. Even internal affairs, as much as it is hated by a lot of cops, is ultimately part of the police brotherhood and avoids trying too hard to hit other cops with charges of wrongdoing.