Originally Posted by lew WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO HELP OTHERS. Maybe not a legal one, but it may be unetgical to not offer help. But it needs to weighed against other possible unehtical outcomes....
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07-24-2006, 11:31 PM
| #41 | ||||
| Baka  Idealist Adelaide, Australia 
| Originally Posted by lew Maybe not a legal one, but it may be unetgical to not offer help. But it needs to weighed against other possible unehtical outcomes.
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07-25-2006, 12:27 AM
| #42 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur.  Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by Kytro Is unethical the word your drunken self is trying to type?
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07-25-2006, 12:35 AM
| #43 | ||||
| Baka Idealist Adelaide, Australia
| Originally Posted by JaJae
Ahem, yes. Howver it was due to my lack of proof reading, rather than any alcohol | ||||
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07-25-2006, 01:44 AM
| #44 | ||||
| ipsa Scientia Potestas est  Pragmatist North Carolina
| We do have a moral obligation, I think. Perhaps not any other kind of obligation (like not a national / federal / state obligation), but it's unethical and unmoral to turn the other way when there is a person who is suffering. | ||||
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07-25-2006, 01:56 AM
| #45 | ||||
| helluo librorum The Lab Moderator  Humanist Chicago Suburbs
| Originally Posted by lew So I can beat illegals legally? I mean, since we have no obligation to them.
I could murder some for fun and since they don't recieve any benifits of our society I walk away scot-free? | ||||
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07-25-2006, 02:25 AM
| #46 | ||||
| Common Sense Conservative  Realist
| Originally Posted by motivez I think basic protections from violence/harassment should apply regardless of immigration status. Can you imagine if it were a rule that illegal aliens could not enjoy the same protection from violence and harassment that legals enjoy? They'd become victims to every predator who'd take advantage of the fact that they have no legal recourse.
I totally agree it's ridiculous that we have so many illegals here and that they freely use our resources. However, when they come asking for help because their life is threatened, that's neither the time nor the place to address the problem of illegals. IMO, inadequate border security and unenforced laws against hiring illegals are to blame here. Once those things have failed and created a situation where illegals can come in and live, restraining order hearings are not the right place to try and correct their rectify them. Last edited by SpicyMcVoodoo; 07-25-2006 at 03:43 AM. | ||||
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07-25-2006, 02:28 AM
| #47 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo Her life wasn't threatened... If that were true she would have pressed charges and he would have been arrested. That wasn't the case. She was applying for a restraining order for "verbal abuse" and threatening to have her deported.
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07-25-2006, 03:45 AM
| #48 | ||||
| Common Sense Conservative Realist
| Originally Posted by JaJae Right, maybe in this case, but it's common for restraining order hearings to involve threats to life; so as a general rule, I don't think restraining order hearings are the appropriate place to address immigration status as a matter of public policy.
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07-25-2006, 10:01 AM
| #49 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal  Democrat South Jersey
| I can't believe what the right wingers call "deeper meaning"  Human dignity be damned. you are from mexco, you deserve to be beaten by your husband. And if you think a man like that won't hit his wife you are deluding yourself. The judge should have issued the restraining order and then if he felt so compelled he could have reported the issue to INS and let them do their jobs. Do you guys really value what we as American's stand for? that ALL men are created equal? they we are inborn with certain inalienable rights such as life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness... I don't recall it saying anything in there about " only if you are a legal US citizen"...  You all say that you value America and American Ideals.. but do you really? Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!  You should all be ashamed of yourselves. | ||||
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07-25-2006, 10:20 AM
| #50 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 America is not a dumping ground for the world's poor. We need control. We are no longer starting up a nation. We need to know who is in our country and people need to observe our local laws. Those who refuse are criminals and should be treated as such.
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07-25-2006, 10:27 AM
| #51 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by JaJae That's immoral, indecent, and unamerican. someone comes to us for help , fearing for thier personal safety and you would turn them away, or worse, lock them up, simply because they didn't fill out the proper paperwork when crossing some imaginary line in the desert.
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07-25-2006, 10:38 AM
| #52 | ||||
| Typical Yuppie Scumbag  Binghamton, NY
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 My ancestors came over from Italy. They suffered far more hardships, but they did it legally. They waited, and suffered, but they still did it legally.
You have no "right" to be an illegal american. And regardless of your situation, if you enter this country illigally without requesting amnesty or anything like that- then you are a criminal first, foremost, and entirely. | ||||
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07-25-2006, 10:40 AM
| #53 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 She wasn't fearing her personal safety. She didn't want him verbally abusing her anymore and didn't want him threatening to deport her. That's not fearing for her safety. It was a mockery of our court system and this judge did the right thing. What was gonna happen when she got a restraining order? She was gonna have to leave the house. She left the house and he doesn't have to know where she's going. It's over.
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07-25-2006, 10:42 AM
| #54 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by TekDragon thankfully that's not how we do things in this country. If you were in nazi Germany then you would be correct. but America isn't a facist state, no matter how much you want it to be one.
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07-25-2006, 10:45 AM
| #55 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by JaJae Well, clearly he didn't do the right thing, he was removed from the bench.
It's disgusting that you would refuse to help someone because they didn't enter this country legally. | ||||
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07-25-2006, 11:01 AM
| #56 | ||||
| Braccae tuae aperiuntur. Reform Party NJ
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 He did help her. He didn't deport her like he should have.
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07-25-2006, 12:23 PM
| #57 | ||||
| Anti-War, Anti-State, Pro-Free Market  Capitalist
| Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent
 A lack of an obligation to help people doesn't mean we can kill people. | ||||
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07-25-2006, 12:25 PM
| #58 | ||||
| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by lew but if someone did kill an illegal immigrant, you would be OK with it? I mean they are criminals right? IF we kill them it saves us the trouble of arresting them.
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07-25-2006, 12:25 PM
| #59 | ||||
| Anti-War, Anti-State, Pro-Free Market Capitalist
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9
On the Statue of Liberty it says "give me your tired your hungry, your poor..." well it's americans who are tired and hungry and poor, and i say until you take care of that close the fucking book! Cause we're losing, we're losing our right to persue our destiny, we're losing our freedom, so that a bunch of fucking foreigners can come in here and exploit our country, and this isn't something thats going on far away, this isn't something thats happening places we cant do anything about it, it's happening right here, right in our neighborhood | ||||
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07-25-2006, 12:26 PM
| #60 | |||
| Anti-War, Anti-State, Pro-Free Market Capitalist
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