Edwards people. Do you really like this plan?

Stylerod · 10-29-2007, 11:06 AM

John Edwards says if he's elected president, he'll institute a New Deal-like suite of programs to fight poverty and stem growing wealth disparity. To do it, he said, he'll ask many Americans to make sacrifices, like paying higher taxes.

Edwards, a former Democratic senator from North Carolina, says the federal government should underwrite universal pre-kindergarten, create matching savings accounts for low-income people, mandate a minimum wage of $9.50 and provide a million new Section 8 housing vouchers for the poor. He also pledged to start a government-funded public higher education program called "College for Everyone."

Edwards plans big for presidency - A Concord Monitor Article - Your News Source - Concord NH 03301

So he wants to bring the poor and the "rich" closer together by taking money from earners and giving it to non-earners. He also wants to bribe people into voting for him by:

- Paying for pre-school
- match peoples savings

- raise min wage to $9.50 (why not $15?)
- give a million more people money for their house/apartment payments
- pay for everyones college

Of course this doesn't even cover whatever his universal health care plan is. Talk about bankrupting America. Holy Crap.

7960 · 10-29-2007, 11:26 AM

He's desperate for support. He should also

-subsidize pedicures
-legislate a requirement for the "super scrub" option for every car wash
-force people 17 and under to pull up their pants
-demand reduce admission for people who are "dentally challenged" in the south

...what else can he promise?

Roonie · 10-29-2007, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Talk about bankrupting America. Holy Crap.

I am not necessarily an Edwards fan but the point has to be made.

I would much rather be spending billions on our infrastructure then spending it on rebuilding Iraq. Talk about bankrupting America. One word for you and that is Bush. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.42 billion per day since September 29, 2006!

Concerned at all?

WickedLou9 · 10-29-2007, 11:35 AM

Paying for pre-school? yes. education at all levels is vital to our survival. Given the fact that we lag behind most of the developed world in terms of education, we need to do everything we can.

matching savings? no, perhaps if it was part of private retirement accounts to begin phasing out Social Security as we know it today.. but I doubt that is his intention

Min wage? I don't think it matters honestly. 9.50 sounds excessive but it's ultimately inconsequential. If the goal is to mandate a living wage, they would have to make it 15 dollars a hour in todays dollars. If that's 10 years down the line it still won't be a living wage and won't really effect anything. It should probably just be discarded as a silly idea because it does nothing to accomplish the goal that it is intended to accomplish.

affordable housing is important and I think it could have an effect on crime and other societal ills. so I agree with the idea depending on the details. It's a pretty complicated issue.

I don't think we need a government funded public college education system. We might want to enlarge some of the programs like Pell grants. The idea of making college more accessable is good but I don't want to see it get taken over by the government.

Scrum · 10-29-2007, 11:48 AM

Do we even have any Edwards supporters here?

Anyway, everything but the pre-school idea is garbage. Lou hit the nail on the head. We all benefit from a well educated society.

JaJae · 10-29-2007, 11:52 AM

This list is pocket change compared to Hillary. One thing is certain the Democrats are going to run on the campaign of bankrupting America in hopes of buying as many votes as possible. They're really only hurting themselves here. They have the election in the bag without pandering to every group under the sun. By doing all of this they're only going to end up hurting themselves in the long run. Eventually the independents are going to say "ok, that's too much money wasted." One of the major reasons the GOP lost control was because of their out of control spending. The Democrats didn't learn from that mistake.

Scrum · 10-29-2007, 11:55 AM

Don't you think "Bankrupting America" is a bit melodramatic?

They may be ideas that will cost money. They may not even work, but I doubt they will bankrupt the country.

motivez · 10-29-2007, 11:58 AM

There are plenty of countries around the world where the state pays for people to go to school, and those countries generally perform far better than us and churn out more science and engineering folks these days..

I don't think it's a bad idea for the nation to invest in our people's education, anyone who wants to better themselves should have the chance to IMO..

I don't think the government should pay for entry into private Universities, but as far as local community colleges, and state four year universities.. so long as those people meet certain criteria as far as maintaining passing GPA, etc.. I wouldn't have a problem with it

Stylerod · 10-29-2007, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Roonie

I am not necessarily an Edwards fan but the point has to be made.

I would much rather be spending billions on our infrastructure then spending it on rebuilding Iraq. Talk about bankrupting America. One word for you and that is Bush. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.42 billion per day since September 29, 2006!

Concerned at all?

It's not an either/or question. I would like it if we were out of Iraq too. Edwards admits he will keep us there for almost a year anyway. So it's not like that money would be available anyway (and a lot of that cost is just the cost of running the military in general)

AVengeance · 10-29-2007, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Paying for pre-school? yes. education at all levels is vital to our survival.

Which is why it is so dangerous to put even more of it in the hands of government agencies.

Given the fact that we lag behind most of the developed world in terms of education, we need to do everything we can.

Yes, thanks to the current system of government monopolization. The rich and elite pay for private education, because they can afford to pay for their child to also attend public schools they don't go to (taxes). Remove that burdon from the middle class, and give choices on education, and it will reduce government overhead and raise quality.

matching savings? no, perhaps if it was part of private retirement accounts to begin phasing out Social Security as we know it today.. but I doubt that is his intention

Min wage? I don't think it matters honestly. 9.50 sounds excessive but it's ultimately inconsequential.

I'll have to agree there. You could set minimum wage at $1.00 or $100, and the price of goods and services will simply adjust to match. There should be no minimum wage. What's worse is that term... what is it?

If the goal is to mandate a living wage, they would have to make it 15 dollars a hour in todays dollars.

That's it- living wage. That's what the minimum wage is, they just wanted to coin a new word for it. What's next- a "family livable wage"? Just more inflation.

If that's 10 years down the line it still won't be a living wage and won't really effect anything. It should probably just be discarded as a silly idea because it does nothing to accomplish the goal that it is intended to accomplish.

affordable housing is important and I think it could have an effect on crime and other societal ills. so I agree with the idea depending on the details. It's a pretty complicated issue.

I don't think we need a government funded public college education system. We might want to enlarge some of the programs like Pell grants. The idea of making college more accessable is good but I don't want to see it get taken over by the government.

7960 · 10-29-2007, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Paying for pre-school? yes. education at all levels is vital to our survival. Given the fact that we lag behind most of the developed world in terms of education,

This is not entirely true

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_827398.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index _top+story

The authors of the report, the Urban Institute's Hal Salzman and Georgetown University professor Lindsay Lowell, show that math, science, and reading test scores at the primary and secondary level have increased over the past two decades, and U.S. students are now close to the top of international rankings. Perhaps just as surprising, the report finds that our education system actually produces more science and engineering graduates than the market demands.

If the goal is to mandate a living wage,

Living wage sucks.

I don't think we need a government funded public college education system. We might want to enlarge some of the programs like Pell grants. The idea of making college more accessable is good but I don't want to see it get taken over by the government.

If *everyone* goes to college, a college degree will lose its meaning.

WickedLou9 · 10-29-2007, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

This is not entirely true

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_827398.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index _top+story

The authors of the report, the Urban Institute's Hal Salzman and Georgetown University professor Lindsay Lowell, show that math, science, and reading test scores at the primary and secondary level have increased over the past two decades, and U.S. students are now close to the top of international rankings. Perhaps just as surprising, the report finds that our education system actually produces more science and engineering graduates than the market demands.

Living wage sucks.

If *everyone* goes to college, a college degree will lose its meaning.

College educated people will lose thier advantage they currently have over non-college educated people, but a college educated person still has the additional skills and knowledge wether or not they have an advantage. It would make our economy stronger to have a greater number of more educated and skilled workers. Simply getting a college degree might not gurantee you a decent wage in such a society but a degree won't lose it's meaning per se.

JaJae · 10-29-2007, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

There are plenty of countries around the world where the state pays for people to go to school, and those countries generally perform far better than us and churn out more science and engineering folks these days..

Those nations are socialist. Having the government pay entirely for education and health care would essentially turn our nation socialist. I think we should fight to keep our nation capitalist. Any perceived benefits of allowing the government to control these institutional could easily be countered and better results could be achieved by kicking the government out.

7960 · 10-29-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Simply getting a college degree might not gurantee you a decent wage in such a society but a degree won't lose it's meaning per se.

I believe it would. It'd turn into a different version of a HS diploma.

motivez · 10-29-2007, 12:28 PM

I think just because it's there doesn't mean every person in our society is going to go to college, it shouldn't be compulsory like high school.. and people should still have to apply for the funds like they do now for Pell Grants (ie: being able to prove financial need)

If they were required to maintain a passing GPA, not be arrested, etc, to keep getting funds, that's certainly going to lower the number of people capable of going.. but still give people who want to go the ability to do so..

JaJae · 10-29-2007, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think just because it's there doesn't mean every person in our society is going to go to college, it shouldn't be compulsory like high school.. and people should still have to apply for the funds like they do now for Pell Grants (ie: being able to prove financial need)

If they were required to maintain a passing GPA, not be arrested, etc, to keep getting funds, that's certainly going to lower the number of people capable of going.. but still give people who want to go the ability to do so..

The people pushing the idea of free college education would never instill the idealogy into the program that kids need to complete a certain GPA or not get arrested. That would be considered racist. We have private student loans and government funded student loans. People who want to go to college can. They just have to pay for their own education through low interest long term loans, I don't have a problem with that... I did it.

Stylerod · 10-29-2007, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

The people pushing the idea of free college education would never instill the idealogy into the program that kids need to complete a certain GPA or not get arrested. That would be considered racist. We have private student loans and government funded student loans. People who want to go to college can. They just have to pay for their own education through low interest long term loans, I don't have a problem with that... I did it.

I agree completely.

nbiggershaft · 10-31-2007, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

If *everyone* goes to college, a college degree will lose its meaning.

I am curious what the meaning of college is if it is lost by more people going to it.

DosEquis · 10-31-2007, 01:45 AM

I love how it is democrats that are allegedly the ones that will be responsible for "bankrupting america" when 7 of the 9 trillion dollars in debt we have came under a republican presidency. Democrats were not the ones who campaigned heavily to get in to a war that has cost 600 billion dollars and will be well over a trillion dollars by the time we leave by any decent number. I will concede that democrats did vote for the authorization to use force if deemed necessary, but they are also not the commander in chief and under his watch 9 billion dollars just go "missing" over there.

Get outraged at that bullshit. Give me a god damn break here seriously. Bankrupting america...get out of town. We talk about things like federal funds for preschool and its "bankrupting america" but we just literally SHIT 9 billion dollars on absolutely nothing and we accept the excuse of "oooh well they were using 3rd world accounting". That 9 billion dollars would have meant preschool for thousands upon thousands of children...instead it went to absolutely nothing. 1 trillion dollars wasted on an optional war...that was originally said to cost 80 billion dollars...and supposed to be mostly paid for by their oil... thats not bankrupting america.

/rant