'Bong Hits 4 Jesus' Case... - Page 3

IminWonderland · 08-30-2006, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

maybe we should also make some TV commercials showing 17 year old kids drinking a few beers and then driving... it's stupid, it's what kids do

I've only read "former principal" but it looks like you're assuming that meant she lost her job. Did you consider that maybe she quit or got a better job?

Nope... suspended.

As soon as I'm done filming that beer commercial with those zany under-age drunken drivers

They do have those commercials. I can hardly equate hanging an "ironic" banner with drunk driving...but they have tons of propoganda aimed at youth into scaring them into the straight and narrow path. This kid is an example of what happens when as a teen, you don't follow that path, you are made an example of. Because, what will happen? More kids will hang banners? Geez, who cares!

7960 · 08-30-2006, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

They do have those commercials.

yeah, like you said, aimed to keep kids from doing it. I dont' think that was the message in his banner.

I can hardly equate hanging an "ironic" banner with drunk driving...but they have tons of propoganda aimed at youth into scaring them into the straight and narrow path. This kid is an example of what happens when as a teen, you don't follow that path, you are made an example of. Because, what will happen? More kids will hang banners? Geez, who cares!

http://www.libertylounge.net/forums/25366-post31.html x 3

there's nothing else I can say....we disagree.

lew · 08-30-2006, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

When I taught we used to joke that I could have a playboy on my desk in the teacher's room but not a bible.

........sadly, it's probably closer to true than we think.

Stylerod · 08-30-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

But what is the difference? The Arm Bands were unpopular because it was going against the war. His message, all be it a strange one, is unpopular because right now we have a "war" against drugs. I believe in essense, both instances protest a war, and both manners of speech should be protected.

Weren't you against the girl that didn't get her diploma because of mentioning Jesus in her graduation speech?

Originally Posted by Iminwonderland

But to get up and say "I know Jesus, and you should know him too" is prostelyzing to a crowd, and i can see where the administration would have a problem with that. Graduation speeches aren't for converting people.

So drug messages are ok. Mentioning Jesus is not. Got it.

IminWonderland · 08-30-2006, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Weren't you against the girl that didn't get her diploma because of mentioning Jesus in her graduation speech?

So drug messages are ok. Mentioning Jesus is not. Got it.

Context is everything.

In the instance of that graduation speech, I believed that if she went outside the speech that was approved, which she did, then the administration could have and should have removed her from the podium. However, I did not think that they should have with held her diploma.

With this kid, he put up a banner. It wasn't even ON the school grounds. Schools don't get to dictate what kids do OUTSIDE the school as well as ON the school grounds. This reminds me of at my own high school, the administrators tried to kick some kids out, because of partying, but NOT on school grounds. Schools need to stop trying to police all student actions, and just educate them. It's much easier that way, and better for the students.

And he could have had a sign that said "Christ died for you" and I could care less. He could have had a sign that said "Homos go to hell", and I would say the same thing. It's a stupid banner. It's not on the campus. Let it go.

Kytro · 08-31-2006, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

The whole question comes down to whether it was a school sanctioned event or not. See my post above.

edit: the kid should get in trouble.

He was among students who had been let out of class to see the event.
Law.com - 9th Circuit: 'Bong Hits 4 Jesus' Banner Was Free Speech

There are legal technicalities, but as far as I'm concerned I disagree with the actions and reasons for the actions in this circumstance

7960 · 08-31-2006, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

In the instance of that graduation speech, I believed that if she went outside the speech that was approved, which she did, then the administration could have and should have removed her from the podium.

Wait...but all she did was change her speech a little...isn't that what you'd expect those crazy prankster fun loving kids to do? Can't we just roll our eyes and send them back to class?

With this kid, he put up a banner. It wasn't even ON the school grounds. Schools don't get to dictate what kids do OUTSIDE the school as well as ON the school grounds.

Are you intentionally ignoring the whole story? They were let out of class to go see the torch relay. They went back to class after the torch relay. It was a school event so school rules apply. Would you ignore it if he did it at an assembly or would you roll your eyes and send them back to class?

This reminds me of at my own high school, the administrators tried to kick some kids out, because of partying, but NOT on school grounds. Schools need to stop trying to police all student actions, and just educate them. It's much easier that way, and better for the students.

I totally agree. When kids aren't at school or at a school function the schools need to butt out. But if they are at school or at a school function the school should enforce school rules.

It's a stupid banner. It's not on the campus. Let it go.

1. It doesn't have to be on campus since it was a school event.

2. Hmm... all the girl did was change her speech a litte. I don't believe the graduation was even on school grounds. It was just stupid speech by a zany fun loving prankster kid.....you think this kid should be sent back to class but you think she should have been taken off the stage

7960 · 08-31-2006, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Kytro

There are legal technicalities, but as far as I'm concerned I disagree with the actions and reasons for the actions in this circumstance

Me too. I think the kid shoulnd't have taken those actions and I disagree with the reasons he did it.

motivez · 08-31-2006, 05:35 PM

He was among students who had been let out of class to see the event.

Jesus diploma

School sponsored event at the school on school property is different than "let out of class" and "across the street".

7960 · 08-31-2006, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

School sponsored event at the school on school property is different than "let out of class" and "across the street".

Originally Posted by 7960

Is a field trip not a school function?
Is a biology teacher taking the kids to a pond out behind the school not a school function?

It's not a gray area...the principal allowed the kids to leave the building to view the torch relay. Afterwards they were going back to the school. It was a school function.

No, it's not.

Stylerod · 08-31-2006, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

School sponsored event at the school on school property is different than "let out of class" and "across the street".

Lots of schools have their graduation off school grounds. Ours did. Someone here said that girls graduation was in a different location but I don't know that for sure.

The kids were released to see the torch and then had to come back in. Like a field trip to the corner. School rules still apply (as far as the principle was concerned) so she punished him.

motivez · 08-31-2006, 05:43 PM

"let out of class" is different than a school sponsored field trip.

From the quote posted, looks like they were "let out early"

7960 · 08-31-2006, 05:53 PM

every time I read another story something changes

Washington Wire » Starr Goes From Cigars to Bongs

...the outcome could hinge on whether the banner disrupted the educational process, whether watching the relay was a school-sponsored event, and whether Mr. Frederick — who had yet to enter school property that morning because his car had been stuck in the snow — was officially on campus.

If he never made it to school in the first place then he's going to win on that technicality.

Stylerod · 08-31-2006, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

every time I read another story something changes

Washington Wire » Starr Goes From Cigars to Bongs

...the outcome could hinge on whether the banner disrupted the educational process, whether watching the relay was a school-sponsored event, and whether Mr. Frederick — who had yet to enter school property that morning because his car had been stuck in the snow — was officially on campus.
If he never made it to school in the first place then he's going to win on that technicality.

I agree, but I wouldn't call it a technicality. It meant he never made it to school for him to be led to the street as a school event. Detention for being tardy would be more like it

7960 · 08-31-2006, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I agree, but I wouldn't call it a technicality. It meant he never made it to school for him to be led to the street as a school event. Detention for being tardy would be more like it

I would call it a technicality because even though he didn't officially make it to school he still joined his class for the event, so he *should* be judged by the school rules but won't because he *technically* never signed in at school.

motivez · 08-31-2006, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

I would call it a technicality because even though he didn't officially make it to school he still joined his class for the event, so he *should* be judged by the school rules but won't because he *technically* never signed in at school.

So if you happen to be at a museum where a school is having a field trip, they should be able to dictate a dress code/speech code if you're standing near them?

7960 · 08-31-2006, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

So if you happen to be at a museum where a school is having a field trip, they should be able to dictate a dress code/speech code if you're standing near them?

flawed analogy

You are supposed to go to a museum with your class but oversleep and miss the bus. You hop in your car and drive to the museum and meet your class at the museum.

Yes, "they" should be able to dictate a dress code/speech code.
IMO his lawyer will say he never officially checked in so he wasn't officially "there".

motivez · 08-31-2006, 06:13 PM

That's assuming he met his class and decided he was going to go in late or something.

He could have simply set up shop there because it was a convienent location relative to where the torch was going to be.

7960 · 08-31-2006, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

That's assuming he met his class and decided he was going to go in late or something.

He could have simply set up shop there because it was a convienent location relative to where the torch was going to be.

(from the linked article)

The other kids are kids from his class. So he was with his class. I'll say it again... if he didn't go to school but still ended up with his class then IMO he should still be governed by school rules. But also IMO he will probably win on this technicality because he'll argue he had not 'checked in' at school before going.