Westboro Baptist Church = OWNED - Page 6

7960 · 11-06-2007, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

But how do you, on one hand, ban public displays of pornography because people find it offensive,

Well, actually, I didn't say that.

But again you're moving this from words to pictures. In your world would it be illegal to spell out the words "I love lesbian double dildo sex" and hold that sign up?

If they passed a law that said something to the effect that a funeral is a special protected event and that people should be able to mourn in peace without someone upsetting them further by expressing offensive ideas about the deceased. I'm not saying that that would be the exact law , ....

My uncle and aunt are so anti-clinton that I believe they'd do something worthy of getting sent to jail if either of them was in the same room as Hillary. They work on any campaign that opposes a clinton, they donate money and time to opponents of clinton's, they have devoted their lives to making sure there are no more clintons in office. If one of them dies the day before the election is everyone going to have to take down their "Hillary '08" signs so the surviving spouse doesn't have to see them and be upset by them?

I have two uncles who used to run the family supermarket. When their father died they couldn't work out who was in charge so they split and each opened competing markets. They haven't spoken in over 20 years even though the front doors to their markets *and* their homes are only hundreds of feet apart. When one of them dies is the other guy's market going to have to close on funeral day so it doesn't offend the surviving family??

The whole idea of "mourn in peace" is fantastic. If that's what you want, stay in a private area. If you choose to go drive around town then you may see things that upset you. Too fucking bad.

WickedLou9 · 11-06-2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Well, actually, I didn't say that.

But again you're moving this from words to pictures. In your world would it be illegal to spell out the words "I love lesbian double dildo sex" and hold that sign up?

My uncle and aunt are so anti-clinton that I believe they'd do something worthy of getting sent to jail if either of them was in the same room as Hillary. They work on any campaign that opposes a clinton, they donate money and time to opponents of clinton's, they have devoted their lives to making sure there are no more clintons in office. If one of them dies the day before the election is everyone going to have to take down their "Hillary '08" signs so the surviving spouse doesn't have to see them and be upset by them?

I have two uncles who used to run the family supermarket. When their father died they couldn't work out who was in charge so they split and each opened competing markets. They haven't spoken in over 20 years even though the front doors to their markets *and* their homes are only hundreds of feet apart. When one of them dies is the other guy's market going to have to close on funeral day so it doesn't offend the surviving family??

The whole idea of "mourn in peace" is fantastic. If that's what you want, stay in a private area. If you choose to go drive around town then you may see things that upset you. Too fucking bad.

Symbolic speech is protected under the 1st ammendment. I know that you know this. Words, pictures, pictures and words together. They are all the exercise of free speech.
and Like I said, the details would obviosuly need to be worked out. The supermarkets existance is not specificaly directed at anyone. It simply exists.
It wasnot placed there intentionally to offend people having a funeral.
The law would just need to specifcy that any demonstrations specifcialy intending to inflict emotional harm on the participants of a funeral would be banned. Or something to that extent. anything incidental Ie the presence of a supermarket could not be prohibited.

7960 · 11-06-2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Symbolic speech is protected under the 1st ammendment. I know that you know this. Words, pictures, pictures and words together. They are all the exercise of free speech.

This is not true.

I can write "I love lesbians with dildos in their ass" on a sign and walk around as long as I want. If I make a sign with a picture of a woman with a dildo in her ass and walk around I will be arrested.

and Like I said, the details would obviosuly need to be worked out. The supermarkets existance is not specificaly directed at anyone. It simply exists. It wasnot placed there intentionally to offend people having a funeral.
The law would just need to specifcy that any demonstrations specifcialy intending to inflict emotional harm on the participants of a funeral would be banned. Or something to that extent. anything incidental Ie the presence of a supermarket could not be prohibited.

How can anyone prove that. You can't even say that WBC did it to inflict emotional harm! WBC says they carry the signs to the rest of america knows god hates the US. Ask them and they'll say they don't give a shit that the family is there. They do it because the *camera* is there. Whether the family is there or not is irrelevant so the rough draft you're talking about wouldn't have prevented WBC from pissing off that family.

WickedLou9 · 11-06-2007, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

This is not true.

I can write "I love lesbians with dildos in their ass" on a sign and walk around as long as I want. If I make a sign with a picture of a woman with a dildo in her ass and walk around I will be arrested.

How can anyone prove that. You can't even say that WBC did it to inflict emotional harm! WBC says they carry the signs to the rest of america knows god hates the US. Ask them and they'll say they don't give a shit that the family is there. They do it because the *camera* is there. Whether the family is there or not is irrelevant so the rough draft you're talking about wouldn't have prevented WBC from pissing off that family.

Oh come on, they were there specifically because it was offensive to the family and it was so offensive infact that it drew news coverage, which was thier goal. We are not saying that they can't get thier message out and speak freely about what they believe in, we are just saying that you can't do it in this one special circumstance. When people want to have demonstations we make them get permits and we restrict where those demonstrations can take place don't we? We don't let people demonstrate in the middle of an intersection because it causes problems for other people.

Scrum · 11-06-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Oh come on, they were there specifically because it was offensive to the family and it was so offensive infact that it drew news coverage, which was thier goal. We are not saying that they can't get thier message out and speak freely about what they believe in, we are just saying that you can't do it in this one special circumstance. When people want to have demonstations we make them get permits and we restrict where those demonstrations can take place don't we? We don't let people demonstrate in the middle of an intersection because it causes problems for other people.

So then is it just a matter of distance?
1K feet obvioulsy isn't enough, what about a mile? Or 2 miles? Other side of the country?

At what point do you think it should go from illegal because they are inflicting emotional harm, to legal? If the funeral is in NY and they protest it in SF should that be legal? They are intending to upset people regardless.
Is it just a matter of the people at the funeral seeing the signs?

What if they don't see them on the way to the funeral, but see them on TV? Won't that upset them?

7960 · 11-06-2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

When people want to have demonstations we make them get permits and we restrict where those demonstrations can take place don't we?

The KKK can have a parade in a black neighborhood as long as they fill out the paperwork. I'd say that means the WBC could be required to get a permit (if they meet the required number of people to need a permit) but the city could NOT tell them "but you can't be anywhere the funeral procession will go."

We don't let people demonstrate in the middle of an intersection because it causes problems for other people.

But we let them do it on the sidewalk, ten feet away. Are you saying 1000 feet isn't far enough from the funeral even though they couldn't be seen or heard from there?

7960 · 11-06-2007, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

What if they don't see them on the way to the funeral, but see them on TV? Won't that upset them?

Excellent point. Apparently they shouldn't be allowed to hold up the signs anywhere in the world because the family of dead soldiers may see them.

WickedLou9 · 11-06-2007, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Excellent point. Apparently they shouldn't be allowed to hold up the signs anywhere in the world because the family of dead soldiers may see them.

So let me ask you... what makes it OK to ban public displays of pornography?

7960 · 11-06-2007, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

So let me ask you... what makes it OK to ban public displays of pornography?

I do not know....but it is ok to make a sign that says "I love lesbians playing with dildos" and carry it around. Displaying pornography is different than writing about it.

Why is it ok to carry a picture of an aborted fetus in front of an abortion clinic?

Like I said, I don't know these things, but I do know banning stuff because "people don't like it" sucks.