The Truth About Katrina - Page 3

08-31-2006, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

plus 1500 truckloads full of food and supplies.

I cant believe you are acting like a 20million donation is nothing

Stylerod · 08-31-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm not a wal-mart hater

I know, Your previous posts prove it. You're also not a liar, this post proves.... Woops. Wait a minute.

Thorgrim · 08-31-2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I know, Your previous posts prove it. You're also not a liar, this post proves.... Woops. Wait a minute.

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

That link has nothing to do with what I posted and only shows how you know nothing about the left.

oh, good to know

08-31-2006, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I know, Your previous posts prove it. You're also not a liar, this post proves.... Woops. Wait a minute.

Lets not start this

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm not a wal-mart hater

what?! that's shocking, because most liberals are. here in boston you have to go outside the city to find one because they banned them.

in california, they are specifically targetting 'huge stores', walmart specifically named.

California Bills Target Huge Stores

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- Bills that would give California's local governments more power to fight Wal-Mart and other huge stores are heading to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, over the objections of the giant retailer, business groups and Republican lawmakers.

it's amazing that they use verbage like 'fight wal-mart' as if it's a war or something.

thomez · 08-31-2006, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

it's amazing that they use verbage like 'fight wal-mart' as if it's a war or something.

ya, pretty ridiculous - about as bad as the "war on christmas" or something

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

ya, pretty ridiculous - about as bad as the "war on christmas" or something

good one, but the comparison is debateable:

let's look at a comparison...

war on christmas

(liberal) people dislike 'christ' reference of christmas or religious reference of the holiday

businesses and local governments alike begin to refuse references to any religious part of the holidays

in some cases, christmas was targeted specifically while other religions were allowed to advertise their holiday

in response, the (often conservative) people and religious people fight back on actions they termed 'the war on christmas'

war on walmart

(liberal) people don't like walmart, so they begin to attack it politically, academically, or any other way possible.

walmart repsonds by continuing its success

(liberal) people define it as a 'fight against wal-mart'.

as you can see, in one instance it's those on the 'defense' in the 'war on christmas' that have labeled it as such. in the other case it's the 'offense' in the 'fight on walmart' that have labeled it as such. not the same thing.

it would only be the same if walmart labeled it the 'war on walmart'

smokie700 · 08-31-2006, 11:18 AM

Okay first off, Has anyone on this board been in N.O. during a hurricane evacuation? Has anyone been in N.O. during a hurricane that an evacuation was called for? Has anyone seen what type of people stay in N.O. during a evacuation?

I have, and I did it for Hurricane Georges in 98. We had people staying in the superdome that were throwing bottles at the national guardsmen because they felt like it. We had people bringing playstations and TVS to the shelter instead of food and water. We had people smoking crack in the shelters and trying to commit rapes. I got off the bus and was told to leave our weapons and only take batons (then heard automatic gunfire 2 blocks away). It took us 2 days after the hurricane to get the homeless people out of the shelters. The stores were getting looted just as bad.

There are 3 main parties responsible for the caos for katrina. The people that stayed, the city and the state. The federal government reacted swiftly when it was allowed to. The city had poor planning then and had it for katrina. Anyone who blames the feds as the main party responsible for the screw ups does not know what they are talking about.

thomez · 08-31-2006, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by smokie700

Okay first off, Has anyone on this board been in N.O. during a hurricane evacuation? Has anyone been in N.O. during a hurricane that an evacuation was called for? Has anyone seen what type of people stay in N.O. during a evacuation?

yes, (I went to Tulane) I came home for 2 of them and stayed for a cat 1 or something... pretty cool

and yes, the poverty and crime there is ridiculous, so the people that stay are not the gems of New Orleans...

smokie700 · 08-31-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

yes, (I went to Tulane) I came home for 2 of them and stayed for a cat 1 or something... pretty cool

and yes, the poverty and crime there is ridiculous, so the people that stay are not the gems of New Orleans...

It just kills me when people think that this was the governments failure. When the state and city had years to improve the evacuation process. Also when people think it is not okay to blame the ghetto rats that stayed. Not everyone that stayed was a ghetto rat but I would be willing to bet that most of the people between the age of 15-30 that stayed caused more trouble than they helped.

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 11:54 AM

being from florida, we've had our fair share (if not more in the south) of hurricane evacuations. but i have to admit, not even the degenerates of florida compare to NO

smokie700 · 09-01-2006, 02:50 PM

I agree but will say that most cajuns didn't want to claim those degenerates either.

TheScatman · 09-01-2006, 02:54 PM

Must read on the subject - http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa573.pdf

"The federal government's top-down disaster response system is fundamentally flawed. The federal government usually has neither the incentive nor the information needed to effectively coordinate relief management. Thus, the best reforms to the Federal Emergency Management Agency would take control away from the federal government, not give it more.

Effective disaster relief efforts have to overcome the problems of bureaucracy, coordination, and adverse incentives. Nonfederal relief suppliers— particularly those in the private sector—are able to overcome those problems. FEMA—a top-heavy bureaucracy that cannot effectively allocate relief resources and subjects its decision makers to all the wrong sorts of incentives—suffers an inherent and unique inability to solve those problems.

In addition, the power to control relief funds encourages federal policymakers to help ensure reelection by spending that money on key political districts. States that are politically important to the president in his reelection bid usually have a significantly higher rate of disaster declaration. States represented on the congressional oversight committees for FEMA receive significantly more money for disasters than do states not represented on those committees.

The best reform Congress could undertake would be to decentralize and depoliticize the task of disaster relief management by taking the federal government out of the disaster relief process altogether. Short of that, Congress should enact reforms that restrict the federal government's role to only those activities that enhance the ability of the private sector to more effectively respond to disasters."

smokie700 · 09-01-2006, 02:57 PM

Wether or not FEMA had issues, the problems started at the city and state level. When the feds tried to assist the state sat on its ass and then blamed the feds. You can't point a finger at FEMA without first blaming the true party responsible.

TheScatman · 09-01-2006, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by smokie700

Wether or not FEMA had issues, the problems started at the city and state level. When the feds tried to assist the state sat on its ass and then blamed the feds. You can't point a finger at FEMA without first blaming the true party responsible.

Like Hayek said, central planners always have the problem of not having the right information to make decisions

smokie700 · 09-01-2006, 03:00 PM

N.O went through this exact scenario about 7 years earlier. Only difference this time was the levee broke. But guess what the cities response was exactly the same, the people that stayed response was exactly the same. How does the clusterfuck that happened not get blamed on city and state but straight to the federal government?

six6ftr · 09-01-2006, 04:57 PM

I think that you definitely blame the city and state but the federal government took their time to step in after seeing that the NO city and state officials dropped the ball

ballz2wallz · 09-01-2006, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by six6ftr

I think that you definitely blame the city and state but the federal government took their time to step in after seeing that the NO city and state officials dropped the ball

How about the government's slow response time? Another myth. Within three days, 100,000 emergency personnel arrived on the scene from state, local and federal sources and rescued 100,000 soaked souls -- making it arguably the largest and fastest rescue effort in U.S. history.

six6ftr · 09-01-2006, 05:41 PM

Well we sat for a week waiting on the call to move out then once we got there, we sat for another 2 days before being allowed to give assistance so you might want to check your facts with the reality of those that responded. Also we where finally dispatched by our governor, not the feds who later decided to take over the operation.