Ron Paul vs. Any Other Candidate

[Dumpy Dooby]

Looks like you're in luck with at least one of those.

Thompson Library


You're welcome.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Looks like you're in luck with at least one of those.

Thompson Library


You're welcome.

One in every crowd...

It is, to me, quite amazing the amount of info out there that Paul has written on almost every issue imagineable.

See you at the Library...

Fed Up

[bheld]

John Edwards

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by bheld

John Edwards

This works best if you proffer some of his views, not just the candidate himself.

[bheld]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

This works best if you proffer some of his views, not just the candidate himself.

Sorry, I was linked to this thread from another by the thread starter and just read the original post.

I don't really need a breakdown, I think this other guy just wanted to know who I support.

[Ardentfrost]

The OP outlines bringing forth issues of your candidate and he will address them from what he believes the RP perspective is. "John Edwards" isn't an issue (unless being a pretty boy is an issue ).

It's more for talking about the issues that makes you want to vote for your candidate. At least, that's what it was originally intended for I believe.

[bheld]

I guess the #1 issue is ending the corruption and overrepresentation of corporate interests in DC. Nobody really wants to touch that one. That and the fact that he recognizes the role government needs to play in order to have a prosperous society.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by bheld

Sorry, I was linked to this thread from another by the thread starter and just read the original post.

I don't really need a breakdown, I think this other guy just wanted to know who I support.

You don't have to bother about what the libertarians on this board will say..it will be very black and white: Edwards is a borderline (if not) Socialist that will choke the free market, and when that happens we will lose liberty and freedom. RP is the champion of the constitution and will protect it while Edwards shreds its ideals. RP will also give us more freedom by making the markets free, moreover if he makes it libertarian free, we will ALL be better off and somehow THAT doesn't eventually hurt liberty and freedom itself. I mean how can an unproven in the real world ideology that professes an almost unchecked irrational marketplace ever hurt freedom right?

Oh and most on here will feel very comfortable judging you (and me) from their high horse.

This is just some stuff I've gathered by the numerous posts between myself and them.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

Looks like you're in luck with at least one of those.

Thompson Library


You're welcome.

First off, this isn't Thompson's library, as it's in Manitoba

Secondly, Thompson is my candidate of choice for this thread. What are we gonna debate?

[Ardentfrost]

Why would anyone bring up him being (or not being) a socialist if the reasons why bheld wants to vote for Edwards have nothing to do with that? If the reason for wanting him to be president is so we can have more welfare, then sure, we can talk about that. But if the reason is, as I understand it from his post, to root out corruption in the government, then let's talk about that. That has nothing to do with being a socialist (well, not directly).

David, we've talked at length before in other threads about your issues with the libertarian movement and yet you PERSIST in taking jabs at them/us. There's really no reason for it.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

First off, this isn't Thompson's library, as it's in Manitoba

Secondly, Thompson is my candidate of choice for this thread. What are we gonna debate?

The OP says to bring up issues of your candidate and he'll debate from what he perceives at RP's view. Pretty straight forward.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

The OP says to bring up issues of your candidate and he'll debate from what he perceives at RP's view. Pretty straight forward.

Let's debate being a real conservative.

[Ardentfrost]

Ok, post your side then

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Ok, post your side then

Thompson is the only candidate that stands for true conservative values. He always has.

[Ardentfrost]

define "true conservative values"

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

define "true conservative values"

I won't define it, I'll just give them to you.

From his website:

National Security
The first responsibility of government is to protect the American people, the homeland, and our way of life. Today we face the urgent threat of radical Islamic terrorists. Al Qaeda is committed to attacking us here at home, and wants to use weapons of mass destruction (WMD) to kill millions. We must never give them that opportunity. We must defeat the terrorists abroad, and that begins in Iraq and Afghanistan—the central fronts in this global war. We must show the world we have the will to fight and win. A weakened America - or an America that appears weaker - will only encourage further attacks. We must persevere. As Commander-in-Chief, the president must ensure the United States has the means to achieve victory. Presidential leadership requires talking to the American people about these stakes, mapping out a clear vision for success, and devising a comprehensive strategy for achieving it. I am committed to:

A larger, more capable, and more modern military that can defeat terrorists, deter adversaries, and defend the U.S. and our interests.

A missile defense system that can protect the U.S. and our allies from long-range ballistic missiles.

An enhanced intelligence community, with robust human-intelligence capabilities, focused on terrorism and proliferation.

A robust approach to homeland security that will protect our nation from terrorists and WMD, regardless of where they come from.

A strengthened system of global alliances to better combat terrorists, proliferators, and traditional threats to our interests.

A judicial system that deals with the realities of terrorists and unlawful enemy combatants.

Federal Budget and Spending/Budgetary Reform
In a few short years—not a generation from now—a fiscal tsunami that could imperil our security and economic prosperity will hit our nation and place an unfair burden of debt on our children and grandchildren. The tens of trillions of dollars in debt that will be accumulated over the next few decades will do immense harm to our economy. This burden is now estimated at $170,000 per person and $440,000 per family. Time is running out to address this looming crisis. We need market-based approaches to reform that guarantee benefits for those who need them and embrace personal responsibility and cost-effectiveness without raising taxes. Given the scope and urgency of this problem, and the burden it will place on our children, reform is not only an economic necessity, it is a moral imperative that requires action now. I am committed to:

Opening the government’s fiscal books on this looming crisis for all to see and understand.

Working with individuals of all political persuasions to develop a comprehensive solution to the pending fiscal crisis.

Leading and making the hard choices necessary, to include cutting wasteful government spending, to safeguard our security, promote our prosperity, and protect our children and grandchildren from fiscal calamity.

Tax Reform
The U.S. tax code is broken and a burden on U.S. taxpayers and businesses, large and small. Today’s tax code is particularly hostile to savings and investment, and it shows. To make matters worse, its complexity is a drag on our productivity and economic growth. Moreover, taxpayers spend billions of dollars and untold hours each year filling out complicated tax returns, just so they can send more money to Washington, much of it for wasteful programs and the pet projects of special interests. We need lower taxes, and we need to let taxpayers keep more of their hard-earned dollars—they know best where and how to spend them. And we need to make the system simpler and fairer for all. To ensure America’s long term prosperity and economic security, I am committed to:

Fundamental tax reform built on the principles of simplicity, fairness, and growth.

A new tax code that gets the government out of our citizens’ pocketbooks, while enhancing U.S. competitiveness abroad.

Dissolution of the IRS as we know it.

Healthcare
Americans have the best healthcare in the world. Some, however, choose not be insured; others cannot afford it. Every American should be able to get health insurance coverage that is affordable, fully accessible, and portable. Coverage should meet their individual needs and put them in control. Those who propose a one-size-fits-all Washington-controlled program ignore the cost, inefficiency, and inadequate care that such a system offers. Access to affordable, portable health care can be made available for all Americans without imposing new mandates or raising taxes. Current government programs must also be streamlined and improved so that those who truly need help can get the health care they need. I am committed to a healthcare system that:

Realigns programs and creates a system around individual consumers and patients by providing more information and more opportunities to choose affordable health care options that best meet their needs and those of their families.

Improves the individual health of all Americans by shifting to a system that promotes cost-effective prevention, chronic-care management, and personal responsibility

Modernizes delivery and administration of care by encouraging the widespread use of clinical best practices, medical information technology, and other innovations.

Increases competition and consumer choice while streamlining regulations through free-market solutions that benefit individuals and reduce costs for employers.

Promotes and speeds medical research and life-sciences innovation.

Government Effectiveness
Our government is outdated, inefficient, and wasteful. It is often unable to perform even the most basic tasks our citizens expect. It is no longer enough just to want limited government; the American people deserve more effective government. Given today’s challenges, we cannot afford—and shouldn’t accept—anything less than a nimble, effective, and efficient government that is able to focus its resources on the important issues facing our country. It must be able act on behalf of the American people and our national interests in a timely manner. The key to competent government is strong, committed leadership from the top. The key to good government is good people who are well-managed and put the national interest first. I am committed to:

Attracting and rewarding the best Americans to serve in government and ensuring they have the authority and resources needed to get the job done.

Fixing government accounting so tax dollars are properly spent and the American people know exactly what they are being spent on.

Improving government performance by making agencies accountable for accomplishing their missions on time and within budget.

Ensuring information technology systems are secure and that they give our government the capacity and effectiveness to get the job done.

Building Strong Families
Strong families are the bedrock of our nation and our culture. They are built around the sanctity of life and the institution of marriage, which is the union of a man and a woman. To counter coarseness in today’s culture that oftentimes victimizes our children and undermines the traditional values parents want to instill, we must not only protect but strengthen the institutions of family and marriage. I am committed to:

Using the Presidency to encourage policies that promote a culture of life, strengthen the institution of marriage and traditional families, and advance freedom of religion.

Returning authority to the levels of government closest to families and communities—the states—and then protecting states from further intrusion by the federal government, the judiciary, and other states.

Combating the spread of obscenity over TV and other media by making sure parents can better exercise their responsibilities.

Immigration
Read Fred Thompson's Full Immigration Plan
The United States is a nation of immigrants. Throughout our history, legal immigrants have brought energy, ideas, strength, and diversity to our country, our economy, and our culture. This must continue. But in the post-9/11 world, immigration is more of a national security issue. A government that cannot secure its borders and determine who may enter and who may not, abrogates a fundamental responsibility. I am committed to:

Securing our borders and enforcing immigration laws. Amnesty is not an option and the toleration of “sanctuary cities” must end.

Reviewing our immigration laws and policies to ensure they advance our national interests.

Uniting Americans by welcoming legal immigrants willing to learn English, assimilate into our communities, and become productive citizens.

Education
A well-educated citizenry is vital to our security, our economy, and our democracy. Despite the tens of billions of dollars spent on education by Washington each year, and the hundreds of federal education programs now in place, our children are still falling behind, particularly in subjects crucial to the global economy in which we live. At a time when America is behind other developed countries in education excellence, the federal role in education is too intrusive and too bureaucratic, and has become part of the problem. State and local governments are closest to the parents, the kids, and the schools, and best situated to implement changes and innovations that best educate children. I am committed to:

Giving parents more choices in education and schools less bureaucracy.

Reviewing federal programs for cost-effectiveness, reducing federal mandates, returning education money to the states, and empowering parents by promoting voucher programs, charter schools, and other innovations that enhance education excellence through competition and choice.

Encouraging students and teachers to pursue careers in science, technology, engineering, and math—fields that are crucial to our security, competitiveness, and prosperity.

Promoting transparency to assess performance, promote accountability, and share innovations in education at all levels.

Appointing Judges Faithful To Our Constitution
Activist judges across the country seem intent on legislating from the bench to promote a culture of abortion, redefine marriage, and undermine families—in effect re-shaping the values of our entire society without the consent of the people. We need judges who recognize their role in our democracy is to interpret, not make, the law. I am committed to:

Appointing strict constructionist judges who will interpret the law, not impose their views on us by legislating from the bench.

Energy Security
The energy challenges our nation faces today are real and significant. Our dependence on foreign sources of oil threatens our national security and puts our economic prosperity at risk. America must rise to the challenge and take the steps necessary to become more energy independent before this becomes a crisis. No one solution will solve the energy challenges we face; all ideas must be on the table. Greater energy security will enhance our ability to pursue our foreign policy and national security objectives. Increasing our energy independence and investing in alternative energy sources will also produce a healthier environment. And while we don’t know for certain how or why climate change is occurring, it makes sense to take reasonable steps to reduce CO2 emissions without harming our economy. Overall, I am committed to:

A balanced approach to energy security that increases domestic supplies, reduces demand for oil and gas, and promotes alternative fuels and other diverse energy sources.

Investing in renewable and alternative fuels to promote greater energy independence and a cleaner environment.

An energy policy that invests in the advanced technologies of tomorrow and places more emphasis on conservation and energy efficiency.

Conducting research and development into technologies that improve the environment, especially the reduction of CO2 emissions.

Second Amendment
I strongly support the Second Amendment of the Constitution, which protects an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. Gun control is touted as a major crime-control measure. But some of the places with the strictest gun-control laws also have high violent-crime rates. Disarming law-abiding citizens does not prevent crime. The answer to violent crime is smart, effective, and aggressive law enforcement. The real effect of these gun-control measures is to place onerous restrictions on law-abiding citizens who use firearms for such legal activities as self-defense, sport-shooting, hunting, and collecting. I am committed to:

Strictly enforcing existing laws and severely punishing violent criminals.
Protecting the rights individual Americans enjoy under the Second Amendment.

[bheld]

Shouldn't the first responsibility of the government be to protect our rights and the Constitution? Grandpa Fred got that one wrong and I didn't even have to read more than a paragraph.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by bheld

Shouldn't the first responsibility of the government be to protect our rights and the Constitution? Grandpa Fred got that one wrong and I didn't even have to read more than a paragraph.

No, the only responsibility of the government should be to protect us, from others and from ourselves.

Oh, and 'Grandpa Fred' got that right. I believe it's all inclusive when he says 'our way of life'. You don't even need to read the first paragraph, just the first sentence for that.

[lew]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Thompson is the only candidate that stands for true conservative values. He always has.

Thompson is close, but still so far away.


Paul is the only candidate that stands for true conservative values. He always has. You can look at where he stood 30 years ago and see that he hasn't changed.


He said it best in the Youtube debate "Yes, and I would like to state that, to the statement earlier made that we all went to Washington to change Washington and Washington changed us, I don't think that applies to me; Washington did not change me."

[bheld]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

No, the only responsibility of the government should be to protect us, from others and from ourselves.

Oh, and 'Grandpa Fred' got that right. I believe it's all inclusive when he says 'our way of life'. You don't even need to read the first paragraph, just the first sentence for that.

That's not a national security issue, it's a Constitution issue. Grandpa Fred must have misplaced his reading glasses or else I'm right and he's just cozying up next to the war hawks.