the answer to 'Is America a fascist state?'

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 07:56 AM

by none other than a favorite of the left, Noam Chomsky:

Noam Chomsky: You Ask The Questions

Would you describe the US as it is now as a fascist state?
T Summers, Cornwall

Far from it. In many respects it is the most free country in the world.

so to answer the thread and those that believed the US is a fascist state, even Noam Chomsky, one of the harshest critics of the war and US government, and darlings of the far left, doesn't believe it is so.

Stylerod · 08-31-2006, 08:20 AM

Wow.

Scrum · 08-31-2006, 08:35 AM

You sure knocked that strawman down with authority.

motivez · 08-31-2006, 08:40 AM

So am I to take it you agree with his other statements on that page as well?

Ie: Defacto President Cheney?

Or that the US and Israel is guilty of war crimes? That Amnesty International reports have merit?

Or, that:

"The Bush-Blair invasion of Iraq, for example, is a clear example of what the Nuremberg Tribunal determined to be "the supreme international crime", which encompasses all the evil that follows. We would do well to recall the eloquent words of Nuremberg chief counsel Justice Robert Jackson: "We are handing the defendants a 'poisoned chalice', and if we sip from it, we must accept the same judgement." The conclusions seem clear enough."

Or, how about:

Not at all. There was unprecedented criticism of the war plans within elite sectors, compelling Bush-Blair to resort to considerable deceit to manipulate their countries into war.

?

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

So am I to take it you agree with his other statements on that page as well?

Ie: Defacto President Cheney?

Or that the US and Israel is guilty of war crimes? That Amnesty International reports have merit?

Or, that:

why would you assume that?

i don't agree with everything from any one man.

motivez · 08-31-2006, 08:46 AM

Well, you seem to be using him as a source that has ultimate credibility on a subject. Ie: He said it, so case closed.

If he's an authority on the subject of politics and government in your mind, why is he less credible on other statements?

However, the thread about American fascism wasn't started by a liberal.

Also, I don't think anyone said we were a fascist state, merely that we have some attributes of fascism.

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

Well, you seem to be using him as a source that has ultimate credibility on a subject.

when arguing with the left, it's easy to use those they respect to make a case

none other than a favorite of the left

motivez · 08-31-2006, 08:54 AM

There's two different questions being asked though

"Is America a fascist state?" "Does America exhibit characterists of fascism?" which is what that thread turned into.

Also, the person who created the thread can hardly be described as a liberal.

Scrum · 08-31-2006, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

There's two different questions being asked though

"Is America a fascist state?" "Does America exhibit characterists of fascism?" which is what that thread turned into.

Also, the person who created the thread can hardly be described as a liberal.

Ballz - 1
Strawman - 0

Stylerod · 08-31-2006, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

There's two different questions being asked though

"Is America a fascist state?" "Does America exhibit characterists of fascism?" which is what that thread turned into.

Also, the person who created the thread can hardly be described as a liberal.

Just because I like vegitables does that mean I exhibit characteristics of a vegitarian?

American is probably the most free nation on earth. Why so touchy?

motivez · 08-31-2006, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Just because I like vegitables does that mean I exhibit characteristics of a vegitarian?

American is probably the most free nation on earth. Why so touchy?

See other points. If you lend someone enough credibility that it should effectively end discussion on an issue, you have to take into account other statements made by the person as carrying significant weight.

Stylerod · 08-31-2006, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

See other points. If you lend someone enough credibility that it should effectively end discussion on an issue, you have to take into account other statements made by the person as carrying significant weight.

Really? I have a friend who knows more about networking than anyone I have ever known. He's Cisco cert, MSCP cert (he took all the tests in one day!), and a whole lot of other certs. He's brilliant. But he's also 300 pounds. I would take any kind of networking advice he would give me. But I'm not going to take his word for it when it comes to good nutrition.

I know you won't beleive anything Bush says, good or not, just because he's Bush. But most people aren't like you.

Thorgrim · 08-31-2006, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

You sure knocked that strawman down with authority.

hahaha fucking

Thorgrim · 08-31-2006, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

American is probably the most free nation on earth. Why so touchy?

Because of that fact, why lose first place because of a crappy president?

Take some pride in our freedoms, and then they'll mean a lot to you and you'll be touchy as well when they get challenged

lew · 08-31-2006, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Really? I have a friend who knows more about networking than anyone I have ever known. He's Cisco cert, MSCP cert (he took all the tests in one day!), and a whole lot of other certs. He's brilliant. But he's also 300 pounds. I would take any kind of networking advice he would give me. But I'm not going to take his word for it when it comes to good nutrition.

I know you won't beleive anything Bush says, good or not, just because he's Bush. But most people aren't like you.

What has any of that to do with the topic on hand?

Ballz was using a comment by Chomsky on a political issue to "prove" that our country doesn't have fascist similarities. He also doesn't like 99% of other political comments done by Chomsky. Your comparison isn't a comparison. Asking an overweight network engineer about good nutrition is retarded, just like you stated. However, that's not what ballz did. He posted a comment from someone political on an issue; someone that he doesn't agree with him on any other political issues.

If anything, his comment should "prove" that we ARE close to being fascist, since you wouldn't want to agree with him.

Besides, he's hardly a "figure on the left." He's a libertarian socialist. He's an anarchist. Depending on your point of view, anarchy is extreme right. While I certainly don't agree with his economic views, since he's a socialist, I do respect him for his libertarian views.

And I agree with his comment. I do believe that America is one of, if not the, freest countries on the planet. However, that doesn't mean that we don't have similarities to fascism, or that we're anything like our libertarian origins.

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

Also, the person who created the thread can hardly be described as a liberal.

i don't think i specified anyone in particular

those that believed the US is a fascist state

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by lew

Ballz was using a comment by Chomsky on a political issue to "prove" that our country doesn't have fascist similarities.

not what i said at all. i'm saying we are NOT a fascist country.

in the fascist thread, even i suggested we have similarities to all kinds of governments, and if you looked hard enough you could probably find some communist traits, some anarchist traits, etc. the list goes on.

lew · 08-31-2006, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

not what i said at all. i'm saying we are NOT a fascist country.

in the fascist thread, even i suggested we have similarities to all kinds of governments, and if you looked hard enough you could probably find some communist traits, some anarchist traits, etc. the list goes on.

I'd agree with you that we are not a fascist country.

However, I wouldn't agree that you'd have to look hard to find the similarities that we share with fascism.

ballz2wallz · 08-31-2006, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by lew

However, I wouldn't agree that you'd have to look hard to find the similarities that we share with fascism.

but i didn't say that

if you looked hard enough you could probably find some communist traits, some anarchist traits, etc

man you guys are good at making things up today

Stylerod · 08-31-2006, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by lew

What has any of that to do with the topic on hand?

Ballz was using a comment by Chomsky on a political issue to "prove" that our country doesn't have fascist similarities.

Where does anyone say anything about this proving anything one way or another? Did Ballz? Did I? Quit putting more into it than there really is.