Honda Releases FCX - Hydrogen powered vehicle

JaJae · 11-17-2007, 01:25 PM

Honda FCX a step forward for fuel-cell cars - The Driver's Seat - MSNBC.com

The Clarity will get an equivalent combined city and highway fuel economy of 68 miles per gallon — twice that of the Honda Accord — and a driving range of 270 miles, according to Dan Bonawitz, head of logistics at American Honda, who added that the fuel-cell car is for drivers “who want to be on the absolute cutting edge of gasoline-free technology.”

For now, those drivers will have to stay in Southern California where they will have access to the limited number of hydrogen fuel stations.

But the introduction of the Clarity represents more than just a cool new alternative-fuel car. Just a few years ago, the idea that a car could run on hydrogen with water as the only tailpipe emission, seemed many years off, observed John Voelcker, automotive editor of IEEE Spectrum, the magazine for the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, a technical professional organization.

You can lease the vehicle for $600 a month. The only places with hydrogen fill stations are in SoCal so it's not going to be widespread. But it shows that the technology to mass produce them and to get good results is here now.

The FCX gets 270 miles per charge, 68 miles per gallon and only water coming out of the tailpipe.

I wonder how long it will take before these are mass produced and become economical. GM hopes to have sold 1 million hydrogen cars by 2012 and they're still a few years away from releasing their first hydrogen vehicle.

Ardentfrost · 11-17-2007, 06:09 PM

Didn't I post a few months ago about how BMW is doing this?

avsp · 11-20-2007, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by JaJae (emphasis added)

Honda FCX a step forward for fuel-cell cars - The Driver's Seat - MSNBC.com

You can lease the vehicle for $600 a month. The only places with hydrogen fill stations are in SoCal so it's not going to be widespread. But it shows that the technology to mass produce them and to get good results is here now.

The FCX gets 270 miles per charge, 68 miles per gallon and only water coming out of the tailpipe.

I wonder how long it will take before these are mass produced and become economical. GM hopes to have sold 1 million hydrogen cars by 2012 and they're still a few years away from releasing their first hydrogen vehicle.

I realise that we all know this, but just to be completist

There may be varying amount pollution from the production of the hydrogen depending on how its done.

If the hydrogen is made by electrically spliting water & the electricity is from fossil fuels the pollution is between 4 to tens worse coz of the greater amount of fuel used.

Of course such pollution is easier to capture at a centrally produced source etc

Equally the electricity might come from solar power, which would be completely different

The article talks of making the hydrogen from natural gass, ..., I dont know of the efficiencies of that.

Either way its not a clear cut solution to pollution or depletion issues, ..., though I welcome such tech advances

AVengeance · 11-20-2007, 01:46 PM

It brings up two issues: where to produce the H2, and where to produce the energy to produce the H2.

Electric is simpler. I'd think more seriously about a hyrdogen-powered car when I could easily and safely make my own hydrogen at home. One of my first chem experiments was out of my mom's college chem book. Take apart some D-cells, take out the carbon rods, put 'em in a set-up with water and cupric sulfate, and make H2 and O2 gas. It was fun. Well, lighting balloons filled with the mixture was fun

Ardentfrost · 11-20-2007, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by avsp

I realise that we all know this, but just to be completist

There may be varying amount pollution from the production of the hydrogen depending on how its done.

If the hydrogen is made by electrically spliting water & the electricity is from fossil fuels the pollution is between 4 to tens worse coz of the greater amount of fuel used.

Of course such pollution is easier to capture at a centrally produced source etc

Equally the electricity might come from solar power, which would be completely different

The article talks of making the hydrogen from natural gass, ..., I dont know of the efficiencies of that.

Either way its not a clear cut solution to pollution or depletion issues, ..., though I welcome such tech advances

If it's using power generated by the fuel running an alternator to create hydrogen which, in turn, is used in conjunction with the fuel to propel the car, it still doesn't change the fact that it gets 68 miles to the gallon.

But the fact that it says "per charge" makes me think it has an on board battery that you have to plug in to get hydrogen from water. This, as I've said before, increases power consumption, creating the need to generate more power, which only transfers where the pollution is coming from as long as we rely on dirty forms of power.

No burning fossil fuel would be nuclear power being used to split water to create hydrogen.

David Octavius · 11-21-2007, 08:35 PM

I want my solar powered car dammit! I know the technology is there, there just no effort in it, maybe because we would not need any kind of filling stations which would put the oil makers out of business for good?

Ardentfrost · 11-25-2007, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

I want my solar powered car dammit! I know the technology is there, there just no effort in it, maybe because we would not need any kind of filling stations which would put the oil makers out of business for good?

Solar cells are fucking expensive!

Dumpy Dooby · 11-26-2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

If it's using power generated by the fuel running an alternator to create hydrogen which, in turn, is used in conjunction with the fuel to propel the car, it still doesn't change the fact that it gets 68 miles to the gallon.

But the fact that it says "per charge" makes me think it has an on board battery that you have to plug in to get hydrogen from water. This, as I've said before, increases power consumption, creating the need to generate more power, which only transfers where the pollution is coming from as long as we rely on dirty forms of power.

No burning fossil fuel would be nuclear power being used to split water to create hydrogen.

The vehicle does not extract hydrogen from water. If that were the case, there wouldn't be a need for fueling stations.

Anyway, the vehicle has a very thick tank for storing hydrogen under pressure. That hydrogen is used to fuel the vehicle.

JaJae is the one that said "charge," not the article. That said, the FCX is basically like an electric car, except it uses hydrogen in lieu of fifty bajillion inefficient batteries.

Ardentfrost · 11-26-2007, 05:34 PM

Yeah, personally I'm all about hydrogen powered cars and hydrogen fueling stations. Now just to get us off the dirty power and on to cleaner nuclear and I think our energy costs would greatly reduce (or, at least stabilize)

AVengeance · 11-27-2007, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Solar cells are fucking expensive!

Yep. And you still have to STORE the juice. Solar panels only give you power under exposure, so you still need to store the energy you're getting for later use. I'm building my 1st electric vehicle (I have already owned one that was built by another individual). I'm going to put a fiberglass tonneau cover on it, and put solar panels on it, each wired to an individual battery with a small charge controller. The charge controllers are basically weightless. The batteries are 120+ lb each (12v floor scrubber batteries). The solar panels have weight, but will be offset by the weight removed from the tonneau as holes are cut in it for flush-mounting of the panels. The solar tonneau also serves as an aerodynamic improvement over an open bed.

It is not my intention to use the solar panels to CHARGE the vehicle, but to trickle-charge during the day, while it's sitting outside, and to load-level the batteries (keeps 'em healthy and happy) on the weekends, and keep them desulfated during extended periods of non-use.

If you really want to have a solar-powered car, you'd have solar + batteries in the house or in a shed, and then use those batteries to charge the batteries in your vehicle (or use the solar to make hydrogen that would be stored in place of having batteries, then pump the H2 from the home tank to the automobile tank).

Personally, I like the idea of a plug-in electric. The infrastructure is already there. it's safe. It's just a matter of having the ability to charge a battery array quickly, and being able to charge for it (KWH meters in leu of gallon meters).