Why I Left Christianity

[up|dn]

Originally Posted by lew

wat

Genesis 2

18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

only then does God create woman.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What is it that makes you different from animals? Do you really need proof of your own soul?

First of all, I am an animal. Second of all, yes, I need proof that I have a "soul".

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What is it that makes you different from animals? Do you really need proof of your own soul?

Nothing. We are animals, albeit high-functioning ones (for the most part).

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

First of all, I am an animal. Second of all, yes, I need proof that I have a "soul".

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

Nothing. We are animals, albeit high-functioning ones (for the most part).

Animals act instinctually, basing their actions on what nature has made them to do. That includes the most basic essentials of survival.

What's different about us? Our ability to consider our consequences. Our ability to act on something other than instinct. Our ability to show compassion towards others. Our ability to pur ourselves in others' situations.

That is not animalistic. That is not because we're 'higher-fucntioning'. It is because we are not animals, we are humans. We are not the same as animals and never will be. We have something inside...we don't just have a brain, we have a mind. We don't just have a heart, we have a soul. We feel guilt. We have emotions.

How you want to associate yourselves with the mindless creatures that walk this earth, I have no idea. Give yourself more respect than that my friends!

[up|dn]

I'm an animal too, and I have no problems with that.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by up|dn

I'm an animal too, and I have no problems with that.

ok

Animals have no morals, no standards or ethics, no rules or laws by which they abide. Why? Because they are unable to do so. Why you'd want to classify yourself as such is beyond me.

[up|dn]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

ok

Animals have no morals, no standards or ethics, no rules or laws by which they abide. Why? Because they are unable to do so. Why you'd want to classify yourself as such is beyond me.

I think most of what we call 'morality' in both humans and in animals can be explained by simple 'reciprocal altruism'. Just because we put them down into writings and call them laws doesn't make us different. Just better at rationalizing our behaviours, imo.

[hereticzero]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

:rofl:

ok

Animals have no morals, no standards or ethics, no rules or laws by which they abide. Why? Because they are unable to do so. Why you'd want to classify yourself as such is beyond me.

Really? Name a moral attribute not found in atheists and only found in the Christinazi church?

The least ethical of people I've met claim to be christian. A set of ethics does not make you any better than an animal. Whose ethics? What kind of ethics? Your ethics are not as ethical as mine. My ethics do not include ridiculing someone over their lifestyle, which is something christians claim as ethics and brag about a lot. Christians ethically bash other religions as not being superior to theirs. What christians claim as ethics would not be tolerated in many parts of the world.

Normal people do not need a law, only when the human nature is perverted by religious laws that forbid normal behaviour do we get a law and then usually because some christian is so mentally distressed over something. We are not protecting the rest of us, only the sensitive nature of christians are protected by laws. The only laws passed are to prevent christians from committing a sinful act. They cannot function without laws telling them what to do, just like they cannot function in society without a bible. Christians are such amoral people. What a pathetic bunch! Why you would want to be associated with them, is beyond me.

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

ok

Animals have no morals, no standards or ethics, no rules or laws by which they abide. Why? Because they are unable to do so. Why you'd want to classify yourself as such is beyond me.

ballz, you're a scientist. why you would argue we aren't animals is beyond me. we are by all means animals. all humans are animals, just a more advanced species of animals.

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Animals act instinctually, basing their actions on what nature has made them to do. That includes the most basic essentials of survival.

What's different about us? Our ability to consider our consequences. Our ability to act on something other than instinct. Our ability to show compassion towards others. Our ability to pur ourselves in others' situations.

That is not animalistic. That is not because we're 'higher-fucntioning'. It is because we are not animals, we are humans. We are not the same as animals and never will be. We have something inside...we don't just have a brain, we have a mind. We don't just have a heart, we have a soul. We feel guilt. We have emotions.

How you want to associate yourselves with the mindless creatures that walk this earth, I have no idea. Give yourself more respect than that my friends!

You think other animals do not have feelings/emotions, or feel guilt? Bwahahahahahahaha. I guess you have never been around dogs or any other type of pack animal.

And what are these "mindless" creatures you are referring to? Are you saying other animals have no intelligence?

As to our similarity to other animals, we are just like about every other creature on earth. We make decisions out of fear. I think humans are probably the worst creature on earth. Our potential to do good is not much more then the rest of the creatures on the earth, if you believe as I do that the best thing you can do is leave your neighbors alone. However, our potential to do harm is much greater then any other creature on earth.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Spideynw

You think other animals do not have feelings/emotions, or feel guilt? Bwahahahahahahaha. I guess you have never been around dogs or any other type of pack animal.

Pack animals have a heirarchy because of why? Fear of being killed. Survival, the essence of instinct. If a stronger dog thinks someone else might try to fight him, he will try to kill the weaker dog. It's not about 'emotions' or 'guilt'

And no, I don't hang around pack animals much. Do you?

And what are these "mindless" creatures you are referring to? Are you saying other animals have no intelligence?

Do they? Or is it simply instinctual abilities to survive?

As to our similarity to other animals, we are just like about every other creature on earth. We make decisions out of fear. I think humans are probably the worst creature on earth. Our potential to do good is not much more then the rest of the creatures on the earth, if you believe as I do that the best thing you can do is leave your neighbors alone. However, our potential to do harm is much greater then any other creature on earth.

No, we have the ability to consider the consequences of our actions and THEN make our decisions. We do this (or should) each and every time we make a decision. It's not simply out of fear or the will to survive. We have desires, we have ambitions, wills, etc. I find it hard to believe that you think animals ahve the same things

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

ballz, you're a scientist. why you would argue we aren't animals is beyond me. we are by all means animals. all humans are animals, just a more advanced species of animals.

We're not talking a simple speciation in a scientific animal kingdom.

Please, I would hate to classify myself as a simple monkey.

[Roonie]

It is interesting you focus on all the negative aspects of religion. I can say with certaintity that everything you know that is good and love can also be found within religion. Like most things there is a duality that exists and it sounds like you have taken to one side of that duality to prove your case.

I envision your life as a pendulum. For ever it was swinging way right and now it is swinging way left. I imagine there to be a balance at some point.

[up|dn]

Originally Posted by Roonie

It is interesting you focus on all the negative aspects of religion. I can say with certaintity that everything you know that is good and love can also be found within religion. Like most things there is a duality that exists and it sounds like you have taken to one side of that duality to prove your case.

I envision your life as a pendulum. For ever it was swinging way right and now it is swinging way left. I imagine there to be a balance at some point.

I think something as encompassing as religion has the ability to both bring out the best and the worst in people.

When people leave a religion, though, there is a lot of anger and resentment, especially where people find that religion has actually stunted their morality, and where it has come into conflict with what they feel to be ethical. The original feelings of anger, deserved or not, is a pretty natural reaction.

[hereticzero]

Originally Posted by Roonie

It is interesting you focus on all the negative aspects of religion. I can say with certaintity that everything you know that is good and love can also be found within religion. Like most things there is a duality that exists and it sounds like you have taken to one side of that duality to prove your case.

I envision your life as a pendulum. For ever it was swinging way right and now it is swinging way left. I imagine there to be a balance at some point.

The balance is no religion.

Everything I know that is good and love in life is not found in religion. You should study your religious and American history better. Christians loved and showed goodness to the Native Americans while they almost massacred them to extinction. Thousands more were subject to enslavement, all in the name of christianity's goodness and love. Christianity is a fairytale gone wild! The theology and doctrine of the church has been beaten into us for over two thousand years through deceits, murder, blackmail, and on and on. It's not just the Native American. Christianity has been the reason for the problems in America today and around the world. It is not the only problem but it is one of the main contenders.

What goodness and love are you referring to because I do not find it in christianity? Is it the love and goodness christianity teaches while protesting at military funerals? Is it the love and goodness taught by teaching others to hate someone because of their particular sexual orientation? Or is the love and goodness taught about a lying and deceitful government that wages war in the name of god through false pretenses? Just what warm and fuzzy love and goodness are you referring to?

Tell me a love and goodness or moral character not found in atheists and only found in the religious?

People do not need a religion in order to show love and be all that is good. Love and goodness is not a hallmark of religion. Love and goodness are hallmarks of people doing good for people. Religion is a giant negative in humanity that sucks the money, blood, and sweat out of neighborhoods when the efforts of maintaining a church can be best used maintaining people. To reject religion is not to reject all that is positive in life. Rejecting religion is the rejection of fairytales as the focal point in one's life. It is the acceptance of reason and fact over faith. What is faith but the stubborn boneheaded denial of truth in the face of scientific proof and common sense. If you are taught the world travels on the back of a turtle yet science has clearly shown the earth is in orbit around the sun and does not travel on the back of a turtle, yet, you want to believe the world actually does, then you are accepting something by 'faith' just because you have been taught that way in religion. You want to remain ignorant because of your faith in something not true. Faith does not hold up under the simplest of scrutiny in the face of truth.

To accept something based on faith because it is unprovable, is stupid. Religion preaches stupidity every week and insists its stupidity is true and without error. That is the major reason for rejecting religion. There is not enough goodness in religion to support its nonsense or to allow its influence in politics. I'd rather have an atheist with a plan in office than a christian without a clue!

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by hereticzero

The balance is no religion.

Everything I know that is good and love in life is not found in religion. You should study your religious and American history better. Christians loved and showed goodness to the Native Americans while they almost massacred them to extinction. Thousands more were subject to enslavement, all in the name of christianity's goodness and love. Christianity is a fairytale gone wild! The theology and doctrine of the church has been beaten into us for over two thousand years through deceits, murder, blackmail, and on and on. It's not just the Native American. Christianity has been the reason for the problems in America today and around the world. It is not the only problem but it is one of the main contenders.

What goodness and love are you referring to because I do not find it in christianity? Is it the love and goodness christianity teaches while protesting at military funerals? Is it the love and goodness taught by teaching others to hate someone because of their particular sexual orientation? Or is the love and goodness taught about a lying and deceitful government that wages war in the name of god through false pretenses? Just what warm and fuzzy love and goodness are you referring to?

Tell me a love and goodness or moral character not found in atheists and only found in the religious?

People do not need a religion in order to show love and be all that is good. Love and goodness is not a hallmark of religion. Love and goodness are hallmarks of people doing good for people. Religion is a giant negative in humanity that sucks the money, blood, and sweat out of neighborhoods when the efforts of maintaining a church can be best used maintaining people. To reject religion is not to reject all that is positive in life. Rejecting religion is the rejection of fairytales as the focal point in one's life. It is the acceptance of reason and fact over faith. What is faith but the stubborn boneheaded denial of truth in the face of scientific proof and common sense. If you are taught the world travels on the back of a turtle yet science has clearly shown the earth is in orbit around the sun and does not travel on the back of a turtle, yet, you want to believe the world actually does, then you are accepting something by 'faith' just because you have been taught that way in religion. You want to remain ignorant because of your faith in something not true. Faith does not hold up under the simplest of scrutiny in the face of truth.

To accept something based on faith because it is unprovable, is stupid. Religion preaches stupidity every week and insists its stupidity is true and without error. That is the major reason for rejecting religion. There is not enough goodness in religion to support its nonsense or to allow its influence in politics. I'd rather have an atheist with a plan in office than a christian without a clue!

although i see a lot in what you're saying, one thing you are saying i don't agree with is lumpsumming all religious beliefs in with christianity. I am religious, I am spiritual, but I am not christian. I don't try to tell others what to believe or how to live, but if they ask me about my beliefs I tell them. There are some religions that don't feel the need to preach themselves everywhere. some that are still based in their origins and are comfortable staying that way......

[Roonie]

Originally Posted by hereticzero

The balance is no religion.
Everything I know that is good and love in life is not found in religion.
What goodness and love are you referring to because I do not find it in christianity?

The love and forgiveness taught by Jesus Christ.

People's actions do not necessarily represent love or goodness. Disguising those actions under a religious banner does not make the actions themselves what a religion is all about. Most people may say they are of some religion but few are of the true essence of what that religion is about. Most in my experience have used the religion as a guideline or some moral compass to lead their lives. A lot of people get bad grades in their implementation of religion in their lives......... but this doesn't mean the religion in and of itself is bad.

Tell me a love and goodness or moral character not found in atheists and only found in the religious?

I think the love and goodness can be found in atheists, in fact in anyone. Some of the best examples today can be found in stories.... i.e. the buddha, Jesus Christ, or modern day saints like Mother Theresa, Gandhi etc. show that concept to the fullest and purest potential.

People do not need a religion in order to show love and be all that is good.

I agree.

To reject religion is not to reject all that is positive in life. Rejecting religion is the rejection of fairytales as the focal point in one's life. It is the acceptance of reason and fact over faith.

I agree with the first part as well. You can still be positive in life without religion as I know several folks who are like my Aunt and uncle and cousins who are atheists but good people and positive.

What is faith but the stubborn boneheaded denial of truth in the face of scientific proof and common sense.

Faith is many things to different people. I know from experience you cannot catergorize what faith means for one individual to another. To do so would be only to make yourself feel better.

If you are taught the world travels on the back of a turtle yet science has clearly shown the earth is in orbit around the sun and does not travel on the back of a turtle, yet, you want to believe the world actually does, then you are accepting something by 'faith' just because you have been taught that way in religion. You want to remain ignorant because of your faith in something not true. Faith does not hold up under the simplest of scrutiny in the face of truth.

Again more categorizing faith for people. I know your hinting towards creation vs evolution with this argument. I personally think they can both go hand in hand and compliment each other. New discoveries happen everyday.

To accept something based on faith because it is unprovable, is stupid.

You accept things based on faith constantly in your life today whether you know it or not. You have faith that you will have a job the next day. You have faith that your significant other will be around tommorow or still loves you. You have faith the world will not be destroyed by a giant asteroid soon. You have faith that you will not die tommorow... etc, etc etc....

Just to prove something exists means nothing to me and is no great revelation and it usually just confirms what you already know. To make a leap to the unknown and cling to that whether it is ever proven or not is amazing and truly inspirational. How do you think every great discovery has been made to date. By those visionary thinkers who have defied common logic of the time and clinged to something that required faith.

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by Roonie

The love and forgiveness taught by Jesus Christ.

no offense Roonie, but was there no love or forgiveness before Jesus? I believe he was a great man, but I don't think he was the son of god any more than I'm the daughter......