Why I Left Christianity

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by hereticzero

Delusional people have no place in authority.
Delusional thinking and placing faith in fairy tales is not healthy for anyone.
People are taught what to have faith in. They are not born with faith. Faith is taught by religious doctrine. Religious doctrine is based on fairy tales. People have faith because of peer pressure pressing them to do so, saying, 'you gotta have faith.' Crap! Faith is a measure of ignorance, not wisdom. You want to brag about your ignorance, have at it.

you still didn't answer my question. you think anyone who believes there is a greater force at work in the universe is delusional?

what about spiritual connections? what about ghosts, what about reincarnation? past lifes? do you think that's all "delusional"?

and i was NOT taught what i believe in. it was something in my heart my whole life and didn't discover it what it was until later.

[hereticzero]

Originally Posted by motivez

Please keep it civil, insulting other posters isn't something which is tolerated.

Are you referring to me alone?

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Pack animals have a heirarchy because of why? Fear of being killed. Survival, the essence of instinct. If a stronger dog thinks someone else might try to fight him, he will try to kill the weaker dog. It's not about 'emotions' or 'guilt'

And no, I don't hang around pack animals much. Do you?

Do they? Or is it simply instinctual abilities to survive?

No, we have the ability to consider the consequences of our actions and THEN make our decisions. We do this (or should) each and every time we make a decision. It's not simply out of fear or the will to survive. We have desires, we have ambitions, wills, etc. I find it hard to believe that you think animals ahve the same things

It takes a modest mind to accept, but our emotions and rationality can be explained on the exact same levels as animals. As a dog cat or whatever will feel sad when a family member dies, so will we. As animals feel loyalty, so do we. As you feel more loyal and caring for those within a smaller tribal element, so do animals. We may have a wider range of emotional response, but we also have a more advanced brain and more advanced packs. Systems of justice, right and wrong are completely consistent with the natural instincts that will help a society thrive, so it's no wonder we evolved as such.

People who do not act justly over time cause their society to fail and then don't have kids: natural selection. We certainly aren't the only creatures to act selflessly, look at ants or bees, they too will choose to act for the better of the colony despite their personal interests.

You will say, well they don't really consider their actions like humans do. But as a scientist, you should know how decision making really works, we are just as much computers as little bitty ants, we take in a set of input and output an action.

[hereticzero]

Originally Posted by motivez
Please keep it civil, insulting other posters isn't something which is tolerated.

Here, hugs and kisses to everyone. Better now?

How can you claim it's not tolerated when the board's own smilies are vulgarly depicted for the purpose of insulting posters? Or are you just telling me because I won't take crap from the christian posters on this board?

[motivez]

It's a general warning, the rules are clear.. but no, my post was mostly talking to other people in the thread thus far.

[hereticzero]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's a general warning, the rules are clear.. but no, my post was mostly talking to other people in the thread thus far.

Ok, I'll tone mine down, too, anyway.

Thank you.

[Linzyhop]

why was my post deleted? maybe i was trying to get more infractions?

people are pissing me off so much, why the hell not?

merry christmas to everyone!

[thatguyoverthere]

Amazing thread. Some of the most thought provoking posts I've seen in a while.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mohandas Gandhi

That basically sums it up for me. There are good people who are Christians; people who forgive, people who give, people with character and integrity. But, I believe that those good people are pretty much in the same ratio that you would find in any other religion, and amongst agnostics and atheists as well.

That, to me, makes it even more obscene when good people who happen to be religious are taken advantage of by organized religion. Their Christian leaders get into power and then do everything that Jesus wouldn't do. Bush is a perfect example. He rode into office with the religious vote, and then proceeded to go to war with Iraq (which again, had nothing to do with 9/11.) Did Bush forgive Saddam Hussein? No. Did Bush even pray for Hussein? No. Seriously... WTF? Bush wouldn't pray to God to change Hussein's heart and mind so that we could avoid going to war? Why not? Bush didn't consult his own father (the only American President to ever wage war with Iraq) because, in Bush's words, his dad was "the wrong father to appeal to for advice.. there is a higher father that I appeal to..." So,... God gave Bush his personal okey-dokey on the weapons of mass destruction? Hmm... doesn't say a whole lot for God's advice as it relates to matters of life and death among his children, does it?

And, I think that's hereticzero's basic point. This kind of thing has been going on forever. Throughout history all sorts of atrocities have been carried out by those calling themselves Christians, abominable things that we would find difficult to believe Christ would even condone, much less commit. Who would Jesus bomb? Who would Jesus torture? These aren't meant to snarky questions, they should matter, especially when it comes to our leaders. Christians who don't act like Christ elect a Christian leader that doesn't act like Christ. If Christians don't act like Christ (and don't call on their Christian leaders to act like Christ), what's the point of calling themselves Christians, other than reserving their golden ticket to Heaven?

[SoFlaJDM]

an·i·mal /ˈænəməl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-uh-muhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.any member of the kingdom Animalia, comprising multicellular organisms that have a well-defined shape and usually limited growth, can move voluntarily, actively acquire food and digest it internally, and have sensory and nervous systems that allow them to respond rapidly to stimuli: some classification schemes also include protozoa and certain other single-celled eukaryotes that have motility and animallike nutritional modes.


works for me... guess i'm an animal

and i guess those who like to put up definitions to things as their arguments really have no retort either

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

an·i·mal /ˈænəməl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-uh-muhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.any member of the kingdom Animalia, comprising multicellular organisms that have a well-defined shape and usually limited growth, can move voluntarily, actively acquire food and digest it internally, and have sensory and nervous systems that allow them to respond rapidly to stimuli: some classification schemes also include protozoa and certain other single-celled eukaryotes that have motility and animallike nutritional modes.


works for me... guess i'm an animal

and i guess those who like to put up definitions to things as their arguments really have no retort either

Certainly nothing that differentiates us from animals were physical.

Start thinking beyond the hand in front of your face. There is more to us than that.

But like I said, feel free to classify yourself as a mere mammal. I prefer to think of us as something more.

[SoFlaJDM]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Certainly nothing that differentiates us from animals were physical.

Start thinking beyond the hand in front of your face. There is more to us than that.

But like I said, feel free to classify yourself as a mere mammal. I prefer to think of us as something more.

why is it that you choose to ignore the dictionary if it's your go to guide to shutting down any liberal argument?

that's hypocracy if i've ever seen it

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

why is it that you choose to ignore the dictionary if it's your go to guide to shutting down any liberal argument?

that's hypocracy if i've ever seen it

i think he -meant- that we're more than just mere animals, although it came out completely different.......

[Spideynw]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Certainly nothing that differentiates us from animals were physical.

Start thinking beyond the hand in front of your face. There is more to us than that.

But like I said, feel free to classify yourself as a mere mammal. I prefer to think of us as something more.

Well, you can think whatever you want. The fact is we are just mere mammals at the top of the food chain. I like to stick to the facts. It does not bother me at all that at the end of this life I will simply transfer to some other energy form.

[thatguyoverthere]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

why is it that you choose to ignore the dictionary if it's your go to guide to shutting down any liberal argument?

that's hypocracy if i've ever seen it

Right on. You've got him there.

Ballz doesn't think humans are animals? You've gotta be kidding. And he's a scientist?

Wow. You learn something every day.

[Bill Shatner]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

What is it that makes you different from animals?

Being sentient and having the ability to rationalise is what separates the human species from non conscious animals.

Unfortunately the people who still believe in cloud fairies that live in the sky choose not to use their ability to rationalise; an irresponsible behaviour at the very least.

Originally Posted by Linzy

you still didn't answer my question. you think anyone who believes there is a greater force at work in the universe is delusional?

what about spiritual connections? what about ghosts, what about reincarnation? past lifes? do you think that's all "delusional"?

I know this wasn't directed at me buy I'm inclined to answer anyway: yes people who believe in superstitious crapola are indeed delusional.

Contrary to what you might have heard, there is no such thing as reincarnation, ghosts or past lives. These are all examples of superstitious nonsense that should have been left in the middle ages.

Gypsies don't sell crystal balls that see into the future.

The only "spirits" John Edward communes with is the 18 year old scotch he shares with his accountant while counting all the scratch he has conned out of the suckers that attend his programme.

Genies don't pop out of lamps and grant wishes.

Spirits don't haunt the halls of ancient castles.

When soothsayers "roll the bones" all they're doing is rolling bones.

When you croak, you ain't coming back.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SoFlaJDM

why is it that you choose to ignore the dictionary if it's your go to guide to shutting down any liberal argument?

that's hypocracy if i've ever seen it

Cause I'm not arguing the definition of the word mammal

I'm arguing things spiritual, DIFFERENCES between humans and animals that science doesn't address.

Why is it you that you choose to ignore the blatant obviousness of my statements (ones that any young child would understand) that might shut down your argument?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Bill Shatner

Being sentient and having the ability to rationalise is what separates the human species from non conscious animals.

That's what I've been trying to argue all along, but there are many here who claim not to be rational or sentient

Given their inability to understand this, I might agree with them.

[hereticzero]

Although there is no evidence we have souls, there is evidence to show we are beings with great amounts of energy. The energy is measurable and can be photographed. This energy is released when we die. Energy cannot die but changes into another state. We exist after death in another state of being. What that state is (probably Michigan ), only the dead know for sure.

After two thousand years, where is the evidence of the resurrection? There is none. Where is the evidence there is no such thing? Wander through any cemetery. I haven't seen them bones, them bones, get together.

Never saw anyone that could test for a soul. The soul is a figment of a religious imagination, the soul does not mean the same thing from one religion to another. There are no spiritual differences between people and animals. Bill Shatner is correct in his claim that it is sentientcy of humans that separates them from other animals, not a soul. Who's to say animals don't have souls, if souls exist? I've had a few pets that had more 'soul' than humans. The theology of a soul is used to control religious members--threatening more punishment beyond the grave puts the soul at risk. Priests threaten people by placing guilt trips on their souls, that cannot be proven but if the priest says one exists, then by god one exists! There are no punishments or rewards beyond the grave; punishments and rewards are for the living. Christianity, in spite of what it teaches, doesn't even believe in an after life. Ever listen to the oaths for a wedding? The oath only goes as far as 'til death do us part'. god is a god of the living, not the dead.

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by Bill Shatner

Being sentient and having the ability to rationalise is what separates the human species from non conscious animals.

Unfortunately the people who still believe in cloud fairies that live in the sky choose not to use their ability to rationalise; an irresponsible behaviour at the very least.



I know this wasn't directed at me buy I'm inclined to answer anyway: yes people who believe in superstitious crapola are indeed delusional.

Contrary to what you might have heard, there is no such thing as reincarnation, ghosts or past lives. These are all examples of superstitious nonsense that should have been left in the middle ages.

Gypsies don't sell crystal balls that see into the future.

The only "spirits" John Edward communes with is the 18 year old scotch he shares with his accountant while counting all the scratch he has conned out of the suckers that attend his programme.

Genies don't pop out of lamps and grant wishes.

Spirits don't haunt the halls of ancient castles.

When soothsayers "roll the bones" all they're doing is rolling bones.

When you croak, you ain't coming back.

wow. talk about incapable of seeing anything outside the box.

if you choose to not believe in that stuff, then fine. i disagree with you on most of them.