Why shouldn't law-abiding citizens be allowed to own whatever firearms they desire?

[Ardentfrost]

Ok, enough talking about what TYPES of guns are the best we're talking about how the ability to HAVE guns protects us.

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Not everyone on LL can view OT

Well, I'm not rehosting all those pics.

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

unfortunately, for most citizens who are rarely in a situation to fire their gun consistently OR are in high stress situations, shot placement isn't such a luxury.

May as well get the Desert Eagle then.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by archangel003

May as well get the Desert Eagle then.

let's be reasonable here.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Ok, enough talking about what TYPES of guns are the best we're talking about how the ability to HAVE guns protects us.

K

"I carry so you don't have to"

that should be a T shirt

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by thomez

K

"I carry so you don't have to"

that should be a T shirt

i digg it

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Ok, enough talking about what TYPES of guns are the best we're talking about how the ability to HAVE guns protects us.

Oh yeah.

The government can conduct a no-knock raid on my house with flashbangs, fully automatic submachine guns and assault rifles, and teargas, but I have to pay upwards of $20k just for an FA MP5 sear.

[PetriW]

I still say you're all nuts!!!

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by archangel003

There has only been 1 murder committed with a legal machinegun.

Ever.

In 72 years.

how many illegal machine guns (not ak47s or ingrams) have murdered people?

I mean, with the black market criminals should all have RPGs, machine guns, etc

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

how many illegal machine guns (not ak47s or ingrams) have murdered people?

I mean, with the black market criminals should all have RPGs, machine guns, etc

probably a lot in teh ghetto shootouts.

but what does it matter? illegal guns will be obtained no matter what the law-abiding citizens are allowed to have.

[thomez]

Originally Posted by PetriW

I still say you're all nuts!!!

We live in very different cultures

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

If law abiding citizens have access to any weapon of their choice, non-law abiding citizens will be able to do the same only cheaper.

We pay taxes in order for our government to arm each of us by proxy through our military.
I believe it is a much cheaper way to go in the long run.

I'm fine with "non-law abiding citizens" having guns if everyone else is able to have guns too. What are they going to do? Hold up a bank when people in the bank might have guns? Mug some lady on the side of the street when she might whoop out a pistol and shoot him (or even a passer-by shoot him)?

And if that's why we pay taxes, I want my money back and I'll just use it to arm my damn self. As long as there exists crime, I want the ability to own a gun... since crime has existed throughout the history of man, I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

[thomez]

how many of you guys think it is BS that the Sheriff departments do not have to say why they revoked a concealed carry permit?

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

how many illegal machine guns (not ak47s or ingrams) have murdered people?

I mean, with the black market criminals should all have RPGs, machine guns, etc

In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the BATF. Since 1934, there has been one homicide committed with a legally registered NFA weapon, committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.

Again in Targeting Guns, Kleck writes, four police officers were killed in the line of duty by machine guns from 1983 to 1992.(713 law enforcement officers were killed during that period, 651 with guns.)

In 1980, when Miami's homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a "machine gun Mecca" and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:

Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.

A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.

16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with "the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations" were machine guns.

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I don't understand what it would prove. Are you trying to figure out if that never happens either? If so, I don't think that proves anything except criminals go for the cheapest weapons they can get their hands on

However, a legal one not being used in a crime in 72 years speaks volumes to the ability for law-abiding citizens to be responsible.

Correction, ONE legal one.

And surprise, it was a corrupt cop.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I'm fine with "non-law abiding citizens" having guns if everyone else is able to have guns too. What are they going to do? Hold up a bank when people in the bank might have guns? Mug some lady on the side of the street when she might whoop out a pistol and shoot him (or even a passer-by shoot him)?

And if that's why we pay taxes, I want my money back and I'll just use it to arm my damn self. As long as there exists crime, I want the ability to own a gun... since crime has existed throughout the history of man, I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

I want you to have your gun or guns, but lets be reasonable, there needs to be a limit of what is available simply because of the mess. I was responding directly to the thread subject. He ask why and I told it like I see. And after reading the last several posts,,,,,,,,it would be a mess.

If someone is snatching my purse, I dont know that your aim is good enough to get the purse snatcher and not me or an innocent by stander. Besides, there is nothing in my purse that I would want someone to be killed for.

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

And if that's why we pay taxes, I want my money back and I'll just use it to arm my damn self.

If that be the case then you would have to gather up all your arms and take em to Iraq cause we are fighting the war over there.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by archangel003

In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the BATF. Since 1934, there has been one homicide committed with a legally registered NFA weapon, committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.

Again in Targeting Guns, Kleck writes, four police officers were killed in the line of duty by machine guns from 1983 to 1992.(713 law enforcement officers were killed during that period, 651 with guns.)

In 1980, when Miami's homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a "machine gun Mecca" and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:

Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.

A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.

16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with "the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations" were machine guns.

proving my point...its not about "criminals having it so we cant!" its just about having something cool, which i'd be for if i trusted the public with a machine gun

you guys dont live in the city, you have no idea how many perfectly legal non-felon people are one step away from complete insanity...its risky enough one of them will have a revolver and go nuts...i have a pretty good chance of dodging that

however if ive ever been in the middle of a street and someone opens up with a machine gun...i have no chance im dead

[archangel003]

Just let the criminals have whatever they want and they won't hurt you.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

you guys dont live in the city,

i do, and i wish i could carry one every day