Why shouldn't law-abiding citizens be allowed to own whatever firearms they desire?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

you guys dont live in the city, you have no idea how many perfectly legal non-felon people are one step away from complete insanity...its risky enough one of them will have a revolver and go nuts...i have a pretty good chance of dodging that

however if ive ever been in the middle of a street and someone opens up with a machine gun...i have no chance im dead

Firstly, I live in a city and I want everyone to have a gun, lol


Secondly, in response to the bolded words, I found a pic of you:

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

proving my point...its not about "criminals having it so we cant!" its just about having something cool, which i'd be for if i trusted the public with a machine gun

you guys dont live in the city, you have no idea how many perfectly legal non-felon people are one step away from complete insanity...its risky enough one of them will have a revolver and go nuts...i have a pretty good chance of dodging that

however if ive ever been in the middle of a street and someone opens up with a machine gun...i have no chance im dead

The number of firearms owned by private citizens has been increasing steadily since 1970, but the overall rates of homicides and suicides hasn't risen.

There is no correlation between the availability of firearms and homicide/suicide rates.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by archangel003

The number of firearms owned by private citizens has been increasing steadily since 1970, but the overall rates of homicides and suicides hasn't risen.

There is no correlation between the availability of firearms and homicide/suicide rates.

we were talking about machine guns, not suicide rates (unless people use machine guns to kill themselves?)

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

I want you to have your gun or guns, but lets be reasonable, there needs to be a limit of what is available simply because of the mess. I was responding directly to the thread subject. He ask why and I told it like I see. And after reading the last several posts,,,,,,,,it would be a mess.

If someone is snatching my purse, I dont know that your aim is good enough to get the purse snatcher and not me or an innocent by stander. Besides, there is nothing in my purse that I would want someone to be killed for.


If that be the case then you would have to gather up all your arms and take em to Iraq cause we are fighting the war over there.

Less than 1% of gun deaths involve innocent bystanders.

11% of police shootings kill an innocent person, about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.

[Thorgrim]

you know what i mean...first shot misses, i run away and im a hard target, etc

machine gun, cmon he'll hit me eventually nomatter how fast i run or if he's not an expert marksman, especially if he's trying to kill everyone on the street

if theres 50 people bunched together, i like my chances of not getting shot, unless he has a machine gun

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

why mess with a 9mm? they are hardly even worth the punch. go for a nice sized 45. karr makes a great carry sized one. the cops even realize the 9mm doesn't have much punch.

9mm is not even worth the punch?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by archangel003

Less than 1% of gun deaths involve innocent bystanders.

11% of police shootings kill an innocent person, about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.

less than 1% of gun deaths involve self defense

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

you know what i mean...first shot misses, i run away and im a hard target, etc

machine gun, cmon he'll hit me eventually nomatter how fast i run or if he's not an expert marksman, especially if he's trying to kill everyone on the street

if theres 50 people bunched together, i like my chances of not getting shot, unless he has a machine gun

Just wondering: how often does the kind of scenario you're describing happen?

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

less than 1% of gun deaths involve self defense

Link?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

less than 1% of gun deaths involve self defense

Is that true? I know no one who was shot as an innocent bystander but I know 2 people who shot someone else in self defense

Got any proof about that?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

9mm is not even worth the punch?

it's not a big round

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by archangel003

They ARE legal. That's what you don't seem to understand.

Yes, but you have to get a class III license and all that shit (or whatever it's called). The end result is that getting an automatic is so difficult/troublesome that the market for civilian automatics is tiny, which means very few are floating around, which means they rarely trickle down to criminals.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

it's not a big round

+P hollow point does the job?

[archangel003]

All the statistics I'm using are sourced, as well, if they sound unbelievable to you.

The Brady Bunch uses emotion to try to squash facts. It's unfortunate that the media finds emotion more compelling.

[archangel003]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yes, but you have to get a class III license and all that shit (or whatever it's called). The end result is that getting an automatic is so difficult/troublesome that the market for civilian automatics is tiny, which means very few are floating around, which means they rarely trickle down to criminals.

Pay a $200 tax stamp, send your right thumbprint in to the ATF.

that's about it.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yes, but you have to get a class III license and all that shit (or whatever it's called). The end result is that getting an automatic is so difficult/troublesome that the market for civilian automatics is tiny, which means very few are floating around, which means they rarely trickle down to criminals.

They'll still be expensive and tracked, without the troublesome legislation. Why would anyone let something for which they paid a couple thousand bucks get stolen? Seems to me they'd have it under lock and key, just as most gun owners already do.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by archangel003

All the statistics I'm using are sourced, as well, if they sound unbelievable to you.

The Brady Bunch uses emotion to try to squash facts. It's unfortunate that the media finds emotion more compelling.

@ Brady Bunch

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Is that true? I know no one who was shot as an innocent bystander but I know 2 people who shot someone else in self defense

Got any proof about that?

i found this:

b) The study states: “Eleven of the surveys permitted the computation of a reasonable adjusted estimate of [Defensive Gun Use] frequency. Two surveys for which estimates could not be produced were the Cambridge Reports and the Time/ CNN. Neither asked the [Defensive Gun Use] question of all [respondents]; thus, it would be sheer speculation what the responses would have been among those [respondents] not asked the [Defensive Gun Use] question. All of the eleven surveys yielded results that implied over 700,000 uses per year.” [Table 1 lists these studies and various facts about their methodologies. Eight of the 11 studies mentioned above were nationwide surveys. Among these, the range of defensive gun uses per year is 764,000 - 3,609,000. The 9th nationwide survey is the one this study is based upon. It was conducted with the most precise criteria off all such studies, and estimates that Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals between 1,900,000 and 2,500,000 times per year.]

when there are about 7-8 million violent crimes per year, i'd say that's about 10-20%

perhaps he forgot the 0

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

+P hollow point does the job?

it helps