Why shouldn't law-abiding citizens be allowed to own whatever firearms they desire? - Page 8

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-05-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

Pay a $200 tax stamp, send your right thumbprint in to the ATF.

that's about it.

You also have to get a judge or sheriff to sign a paper vouching for you.

archangel003 · 09-05-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

less than 1% of gun deaths involve self defense

People use firearms in the United States to defend themselves from criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times a year.

For every accidental death or homicide with a firearm, 10 lives are saved through their defensive use.

KatKanPlay · 09-05-2006, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I HOPE that people who own guns are responsible enough to learn how to use them As it stands, most are. And if someone steals your purse, sometimes all you gotta do is yell "stop or I'll shoot"

If it were all our responsibility (those who own guns at least) to fight for our gov't, I doubt we'd be in Iraq But I support an army (or, armed forced so I don't offend TKG). Protecting us with an army when necessary is one of the few REAL responsibilities of our federal government. That STILL doesn't mean we should be in Iraq

You probably need to take a look at my first post because I didnt say it was the gun owners responsiblity. It was a hypothically link to taxes and why we have a military.

In reference to Iraq:

The day we dropped the first bombs and the invasion began,,,,at first I cried, and then I got pissed. REAL FUCKIN PISSED! And all I could think and say was what the HELL are we doing. So I have never been behind that fiasco, I want to make that very clear.

In reference to Guns
I want you to have your guns, I want you to be able to defend yourselves, but there had to be a reasonable limit simply because of, the destruction they can cause; the human element; and the criminal element. We pay taxes in order to have a well armed militia.

archangel003 · 09-05-2006, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You also have to get a judge or sheriff to sign a paper vouching for you.

Actually, you don't. You just have to inform them of your intent to collect NFA weapons, the BATF has jurisdiction over NFA matters. Your Chief LEO in your area merely uses the copy you give them for their records.

archangel003 · 09-05-2006, 09:42 PM

The 2nd amendment isn't for the military people. It's an individual right.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-05-2006, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

Actually, you don't. You just have to inform them of your intent to collect NFA weapons, the BATF has jurisdiction over NFA matters. Your Chief LEO in your area merely uses the copy you give them for their records.

Okay, whatever, the point is that the market for automatic weapons is much smaller because of the above red tape than it would be if you could just walk into a gun shop and pick up a machine gun like you can now with a pistol (in some states). I'd love a silencer if it wasn't such a pain in the ass.

Diesel66 · 09-05-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

machine gun, cmon he'll hit me eventually nomatter how fast i run or if he's not an expert marksman, especially if he's trying to kill everyone on the street

Never fired an automatic weapon before ? Homie shooting a pistol sideways isnt going to get you

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-05-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

The 2nd amendment isn't for the military people. It's an individual right.

that's irrelevant to what I was responding to.

archangel003 · 09-05-2006, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

Never fired an automatic weapon before ? Homie shooting a pistol sideways isnt going to get you

Hay where'd thorgrim go?

It looks like he followed his "facts", and disappeared.

Ardentfrost · 09-05-2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

You also have to get a judge or sheriff to sign a paper vouching for you.

Link to how many legal guns are stolen every year from citizens (not police, military, etc...).

Granted I only know 20 or 25 people who own guns, but they're all VERY responsible with them and how well they're locked up. One of them even bought one of those handprint reader safes.

archangel003 · 09-05-2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

that's irrelevant to what I was responding to.

I don't know why it quoted you, actually. I must suck at the internet or something.

Thorgrim · 09-05-2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Is that true? I know no one who was shot as an innocent bystander but I know 2 people who shot someone else in self defense

Got any proof about that?

FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1999, table 2.17, p.23

134

out of?

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

Diesel66 · 09-05-2006, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1999, table 2.17, p.23

134

out of?

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

and ~50% of those are suicides

Thorgrim · 09-05-2006, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

People use firearms in the United States to defend themselves from criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times a year.

For every accidental death or homicide with a firearm, 10 lives are saved through their defensive use.

thats a 30 year old guesstimate

Ardentfrost · 09-05-2006, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1999, table 2.17, p.23

134

out of?

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

That's fine, but your post lacks a link

not that I don't trust you, just that I want to see what they consider what.

Thorgrim · 09-05-2006, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Diesel66

and ~50% of those are suicides

even if they are, thats still less than 1% at 14,000

not that it matters anyway, id still include suicides

ballz2wallz · 09-05-2006, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

FBI Uniform Crime Report, 1999, table 2.17, p.23

134

out of?

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

those are just deaths. how many crimes are deterred just by showing the gun? by being injured? a LOT more than are killed while trying to commit a crime. we've already showed the info.

archangel003 · 09-05-2006, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

thats a 30 year old guesstimate

Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995.

try again.

KatKanPlay · 09-05-2006, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by archangel003

Less than 1% of gun deaths involve innocent bystanders.

11% of police shootings kill an innocent person, about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.

You have no way of knowing what those numbers would be if law-abiding citizens were allowed to own WHATEVER firearms they desire. That was your question.